# Quick thoughts on GATE OF HORN... *The Urth list — 5 messages, 4 voices, 06 Aug 2013* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### Brian Doherty *06 Aug 2013, 15:29* Overall, struck me as perhaps too Wolfean (by design, I'm sure) to be an entertaining and useful guide. I wanted more detailed explanations/theorizing, less purse-lipped blankness and names of latin plants. Let's say that a concordance that doesn't tell you WHO Incanto is and why (any more than do the novels own character lists) while giving you every Latin plant name is erring on the side of cleverness vs. reader interest, entertainment, or even use. Reading this, sadly, rather than reminding me how much I adored SHORT SUN and LONG SUN, made me wonder a bit why I liked those books at all. This guide was not any good opportunity to revisit or think about in a new way the joys of those books--mostly worked to (to this reader) drain out all that joy. Other opinions and observations welcome, to be sure. Brian Doherty --- ### aaron *06 Aug 2013, 18:22 · in reply to Brian Doherty* I bought this for my Kindle a few months ago, but have yet to do more than skim through it. Your post reminds me that I had planned a re-read with the guide handy. Maybe then I can say something meaningful about it. > On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Brian Doherty wrote: > Overall, struck me as perhaps too Wolfean (by design, I'm sure) to be an > entertaining and useful guide. > > I wanted more detailed explanations/theorizing, less purse-lipped > blankness and names of latin plants. Let's say that a concordance that > doesn't tell you WHO Incanto is and why (any more than do the novels own > character lists) while giving you every Latin plant name is erring on the > side of cleverness vs. reader interest, entertainment, or even use. > > Reading this, sadly, rather than reminding me how much I adored SHORT SUN > and LONG SUN, made me wonder a bit why I liked those books at all. This > guide was not any good opportunity to revisit or think about in a new way > the joys of those books--mostly worked to (to this reader) drain out all > that joy. > > Other opinions and observations welcome, to be sure. > > Brian Doherty > > _______________________________________________ --- ### David Stockhoff *11 Aug 2013, 15:57 · in reply to aaron* In IGJ, chapter 14, Duko Rigoglio mentions the Loganstone, assumed to be the lander that carried him and others to the Whorl. I don't see any speculation about this name in Moonmilk. A logan stone is a large rock that wobbles. From the wiki for Rocking Stone: *Rocking stones* (also known as *logan stones* or /*logans*/) are large stones that are so finely balanced that the application of just a small force causes them to rock. They are found throughout the world. Some are man-made megaliths , but others are natural, often left by glaciers. Logan or rocking stones are known in Scotland sometimes as *clach-br?th*. They marked locations where Scottish open-air courts would take place. A clach-br?th is sometimes known as a judgment stone. The reason that courts were near logan stones is that the movement of stones in such formations was used to determine the guilt or innocence of those accused of serious crimes in ancient times. The word "logan" is probably derived from the word "log", which in an English dialect means to rock. In fact, in some parts of the UK, rocking stones or logan stones are called logging stones. The word "log" might be connected with the Danish word "logre", which means to "wag a tail". Some have suggested that the word "logan" comes from a Cornish expression for the movement that someone makes when inebriated. I draw two correspondences from this: (1) Being chosen/accepted for transport on the Whorl must have been seen, or may be taken, as a sort of judgment. Whether positive or negative in terms of loyalty to Typhon's family, I don't know. But the judgment connotation should fit in with the other Old Testament-connected "big ideas," such as the Whorl itself as a demiurgic Tower of Babel. (2) There is a Dionysiac connotation here, based on the possible derivation from drunken staggering. (3) Together, these seem to point to the Outsider. --- ### Lee Berman *12 Aug 2013, 13:01 · follows David Stockhoff* > David Stockhoff: In IGJ, chapter 14, Duko Rigoglio mentions the Loganstone, > assumed to be the lander that carried him and others to the Whorl. Thanks for calling this to our attention, David. I poked around a little and found this about Loganstones, which I found to be relevant and of interest: > Their weirdness has long given them supernatural associations and made them a > focus for witchcraft. It was thought, for example, that the rocking stone near > Nancledrea in Cornwall could only be moved at midnight when witches were abroad; > people believed that if you touched it nine times at midnight, you turned into a > witch. The one at Land’s End was said to have been put there by a giant who rocked > himself to sleep on it. http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwords/ww-log1.htm Perhaps there is a loose association with the "Mother" of the witches on Urth, the Cumaean, who is in contact with a being in the Fomalhaut (Fish's Mouth) star system. On Blue we have the giant, fishy Mother who swallows sailors and is associated with Abaia, Great Scylla and Echidna, who connects back to The Cumaean (Sybil). Perhaps Wolfe didn't have the giants and witches in mind when he named the Loganstone, but it seems like the possibility of a general connection exists. --- ### David Stockhoff *12 Aug 2013, 13:11 · in reply to Lee Berman* Interesting. Well, witches and giants certainly come with the territory. >> On 8/12/2013 9:01 AM, Lee Berman wrote: >> David Stockhoff: In IGJ, chapter 14, Duko Rigoglio mentions the Loganstone, >> assumed to be the lander that carried him and others to the Whorl. > Thanks for calling this to our attention, David. I poked around a little and > found this about Loganstones, which I found to be relevant and of interest: >> Their weirdness has long given them supernatural associations and made them a >> focus for witchcraft. It was thought, for example, that the rocking stone near >> Nancledrea in Cornwall could only be moved at midnight when witches were abroad; >> people believed that if you touched it nine times at midnight, you turned into a >> witch. The one at Land’s End was said to have been put there by a giant who rocked >> himself to sleep on it. http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwords/ww-log1.htm >> Perhaps there is a loose association with the "Mother" of the witches on Urth, the >> Cumaean, who is in contact with a being in the Fomalhaut (Fish's Mouth) star system. > On Blue we have the giant, fishy Mother who swallows sailors and is associated with > Abaia, Great Scylla and Echidna, who connects back to The Cumaean (Sybil). > > Perhaps Wolfe didn't have the giants and witches in mind when he named the Loganstone, > but it seems like the possibility of a general connection exists. > _______________________________________________ ---