{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6435", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 6435, "subject": "Silk and Malrubius", "messages": 3, "voices": 2, "first": "2013-09-11T23:19:18+00:00", "last": "2013-09-12T09:41:12+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Peter Sun Rogers", "address": "petersunrogers at gmail.com" }, "date": "2013-09-11T23:19:18+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Silk and Malrubius", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hi all, I just finished reading Return to the Whorl again and it struck me\nthat Severian refers to Silkhorn's bird as *Malrubius*'s bird. This made me\nrealize that many of the characteristics that Severian attributes to the\nghost of Malrubius in *Book of the New Sun, *echo the traits we know best\nof Silk quite strongly. When Malrubius peaked in to check on Severian, it\nreminded me of something that Silk might do if he heard a worrying noise in\na student's room. Also, Malrubius's lecture on the Seven Principles of\nGovernance:\n\n*\"Attachment to the person of the monarch. Attachment to a bloodline or\nother sequence of succession.*\n\n*Attachment to the royal state. *\n\n*Attachment to a code legitimizing the governing state. *\n\n*Attachment to the law **only. *\n\n*Attachment to a greater or lesser board of electors, as framers of the\nlaw. *\n\n*Attachment to an **abstraction conceived as including the body of\nelectors, other bodies giving rise to them, and numerous **other elements,\nlargely ideal.\"*\n\nThis struck me as the type of revelation Silk might have had after his\nEnlightenment at the ball court. So perhaps in the same way that Severian\nis both Severian and Thecla, and Silk is both Silk and Horn, perhaps Silk\nis both Silk and Malrubius. That is to say, a conceptual soul that inhabits\nboth Silk and Malrubius simultaneously. In this case, it appears as if Book\nof the New Sun *does *set some precedent for the events of Book of the\nShort Sun, despite Severian's claim that he would never write about Silk.\n\nSeverian claimed that he would never write about his journeys with Silkhorn\nbecause he would be immediately discredited. However, who says that the\nonly times that Silk visited Severian were the two times that he was\naccompanied by his sons? It is likely that he checked up on Severian his\nentire life, with Severian barely noticing him several times. In this way,\nSilk is both Severian's mentor and protector, watching over the man who\nwould (one day) become the male and female voices that whispers\nenlightenment into his ears at the beginning of the Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Peter Sun Rogers", "address": "petersunrogers at gmail.com" }, "date": "2013-09-12T01:52:49+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Silk and Malrubius", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This also strengthens the motif of characters being the vehicles of\narchetypal roles, rather than individual and discrete personalities. As\nGene Wolfe puts it in *Shadow and Claw,*: We say, \"I will,\" and \"I will\nnot,\" and imagine ourselves (though we obey the orders of some prosaic\nperson every day) our own masters, when the truth is that our masters are\nsleeping. One wakes within us and we are ridden like beasts, though the\nrider is but some hitherto unguessed part of ourselves.\"\n\nSo Malrubius is Silk and Silk is Malrubius because they are both controlled\nby the same master: the archetypal mentor that raises up Severian to\neventually become the New Sun. But as suggested by others in this\nnewsletter, transcendent Severian than enlightens Silk in the ball court,\nthus closing the loop and connecting the cyclical chain of events that\nforms the complete Increate." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Peter Sun Rogers\nwrote:\nHi all, I just finished reading Return to the Whorl again and it struck me\nthat Severian refers to Silkhorn's bird as *Malrubius*'s bird. This made\nme realize that many of the characteristics that Severian attributes to the\nghost of Malrubius in *Book of the New Sun, *echo the traits we know best\nof Silk quite strongly. When Malrubius peaked in to check on Severian, it\nreminded me of something that Silk might do if he heard a worrying noise in\na student's room. Also, Malrubius's lecture on the Seven Principles of\nGovernance:\n\n*\"Attachment to the person of the monarch. Attachment to a bloodline or\nother sequence of succession.*\n\n*Attachment to the royal state. *\n\n*Attachment to a code legitimizing the governing state. *\n\n*Attachment to the law **only. *\n\n*Attachment to a greater or lesser board of electors, as framers of the\nlaw. *\n\n*Attachment to an **abstraction conceived as including the body of\nelectors, other bodies giving rise to them, and numerous **other\nelements, largely ideal.\"*\n\nThis struck me as the type of revelation Silk might have had after his\nEnlightenment at the ball court. So perhaps in the same way that Severian\nis both Severian and Thecla, and Silk is both Silk and Horn, perhaps Silk\nis both Silk and Malrubius. That is to say, a conceptual soul that inhabits\nboth Silk and Malrubius simultaneously. In this case, it appears as if Book\nof the New Sun *does *set some precedent for the events of Book of the\nShort Sun, despite Severian's claim that he would never write about Silk.\n\nSeverian claimed that he would never write about his journeys with\nSilkhorn because he would be immediately discredited. However, who says\nthat the only times that Silk visited Severian were the two times that he\nwas accompanied by his sons? It is likely that he checked up on Severian\nhis entire life, with Severian barely noticing him several times. In this\nway, Silk is both Severian's mentor and protector, watching over the man\nwho would (one day) become the male and female voices that whispers\nenlightenment into his ears at the beginning of the Book of the Long Sun.\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<331F12EED95A48DE95D0F930869D7512@Rover>", "from": { "name": "Gerry Quinn", "address": "gerry at bindweed.com" }, "date": "2013-09-12T09:41:12+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Silk and Malrubius", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "From: Peter Sun Rogers" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Hi all, I just finished reading Return to the Whorl again and it\nstruck me that Severian refers to Silkhorn's bird as Malrubius's\n bird. This made me realize that many of the characteristics that\nSeverian attributes to the ghost of Malrubius in Book of the New\n Sun, echo the traits we know best of Silk quite strongly." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That's interesting, but I think the actual incident where Severian said the \nbird belonged to Malrubius was just a lie Severian told to get rid of the \nheavyset man (Gurloes?). That said, when Horn put his hand on Gurloes \nshoulder, what did Gurloes see?\n\n- Gerry Quinn " } ] } ] }