{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6483", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 6483, "subject": "Urth Digest, Vol 112, Issue 21", "messages": 6, "voices": 5, "first": "2013-12-17T03:51:13+00:00", "last": "2013-12-18T14:17:15+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<4988f088$61bdc870$63decc01$@hwaet.com>", "from": { "name": "Eric Bourland", "address": "eb at hwaet.com" }, "date": "2013-12-17T03:51:13+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Urth Digest, Vol 112, Issue 21", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Blue of cheek ... pale. That is how I read it. Since Severian is unusually \npale, I would suppose she would be commenting on that paleness. In certain \nwan light the cheek might look blue.\n\n*******\n Eric Bourland\n eb at hwaet.com\n\n----------------------------------------\nFrom: urth-request at lists.urth.net\nSent: Monday, December 16, 2013 5:13 PM\nTo: urth at lists.urth.net\nSubject: Urth Digest, Vol 112, Issue 21\n\nSend Urth mailing list submissions to\n\turth at lists.urth.net\n\nTo subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit\n\thttp://lists.urth.net/listinfo.cgi/urth-urth.net\nor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to\n\turth-request at lists.urth.net\n\nYou can reach the person managing the list at\n\turth-owner at lists.urth.net\n\nWhen replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific\nthan \"Re: Contents of Urth digest...\"\n\nToday's Topics:\n\n 1. Re: Editor in China requesting help with translation of\n certain sentences in BotNS (Antonin Scriabin)\n 2. Re: Rosemary Wolfe, R.I.P. (aaron)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nMessage: 1\nDate: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 15:54:56 -0500\nFrom: Antonin Scriabin \nTo: The Urth Mailing List \nSubject: Re: (urth) Editor in China requesting help with translation\n\tof certain sentences in BotNS\nMessage-ID:\n\t\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=\"windows-1252\"\n\nWell, \"bluer of cheek\" is a variation on the term \"blue-blood\", of course \na\nreference to nobility ... you could see the surface veins of those who,\nbecause of their stature in society, had very pale skin (they didn't have\nto work outside at physical labor, thus acquiring a tan).\n\nIn Solitaire, a black (or red) Jack is placed \"on top\" of a Queen of the\nopposite color (and a different suit, necessarily) ... so perhaps the\n\"elector\" is the Jack and the \"patroness\" is the Queen?\n\n\"Theocenter\" might simply mean \"godhead\", or a reference to the oneness \nand\nsimplicity thereof, as the root of all existence, in a Judeo-Christian\nsense. But don't quote me.\n\nNot sure about the other one, I'll have to page through my copy at home to\nget the full context.\n\nOn Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Daniel Otto Jack Petersen <\ndanielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote:\n\nGot this alert from the Goodreads Gene Wolfe group:\n\n\n\nhttps://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1614149-help-some-details-in-the-shadow\n“utm_medium=email&utm_source=comment_instant#comment_88705259\n\n\"I am a SF editor & Wolfe fan in China, and we are trying to publish The\nBook of New Sun in Chinese. I've done a lot of work in reading and\ntranslation , yet there are still some sentences I can't understand. Hope \nI\ncan get some help here.\n\nTHE HOUSE AZURE\nWhile I was undressing I said, ?Nevertheless, we all seek to discover \nwhat\nis real. Why is it” Perhaps we are drawn to the theocenter. That’s what \nthe\nhierophants say,that only that is true.\n\nwhat does \"theocenter\" mean? I can't find this word in dictionary nor \ncan\nI google it. and what does the whole sentence mean?\n--------------------------------------------\nTHE LAST YEAR\nI carried them to her, and she said my beard had shot up like them, and \nI\nshould be bluer of cheek than the run of common men, and the next day\nbegged my pardon for it, saying I was that already.\n\nwhat does \"bluer of cheek\"and \" run of common men\" mean here?\n-----------------------------------------\nDORCAS\n“Your pardon, sieur,” he said. “But I can’t come no nearer. Wet she may\nbe, but she gets too dry for me, or you couldn’t walk upon it.\n\nDoes \"she\" refer to the boat or Cas' body” what does the sentence mean?\n\n------------------------------------------\nTHE PLAY\nconfirm the outcome of a love affair by putting the elector of one suit\natop the patroness of another\n\nIf the word suit refer to the some card game, then what does \n\"elector\"and\n\"patroness\"mean?\"\n\n--\nDaniel Otto Jack Petersen\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at clueland.com" }, "date": "2013-12-17T04:46:10+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Urth Digest, Vol 112, Issue 21", "in_reply_to": "<4988f088$61bdc870$63decc01$@hwaet.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, December 16, 2013 21:51, Eric Bourland wrote:\nBlue of cheek ... pale. That is how I read it. Since Severian is unusually\npale, I would suppose she would be commenting on that paleness. In certain\nwan light the cheek might look blue." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "A Dictionary of Slang, Jargon & Cant Embracing English, American ...,\nVolume 1\n edited by Albert Barr re, Charles Godfrey Leland (1897) cites Outcasts of\nLondon by J. Greenwood for blue cheek as a style of wearing whiskers,\nshaved but leaving enough to color the cheek.\n\nPale skin is also given to being called blue when chilled, but the cheeks\nare usually the last place in that condition, IMO." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - < jwilson at clueland.com >\nA&M Texarkana Computational Intelligence Lab\n< http://www.tamut.edu/cil >" } ] }, { "message_id": "<52B04A7D.4000503@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2013-12-17T12:58:37+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Urth Digest, Vol 112, Issue 21", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Or the second to last." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 12/16/2013 11:46 PM, Jeff Wilson wrote:\nPale skin is also given to being called blue when chilled, but the cheeks\nare usually the last place in that condition, IMO." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Eric Bourland", "address": "eb at hwaet.com" }, "date": "2013-12-17T14:46:01+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Urth Digest, Vol 112, Issue 21", "in_reply_to": "<52B04A7D.4000503@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm usually quiet on this list, but appreciate its discussions every day. I \nfind Ms. Rosemary's passing quite sad. I have never met Mr. or Mrs. Wolfe, \nthough for a while I lived approximately near them in Chicago.\n\nI would like to send flowers, or a brief simple card, to Mr. Wolfe's \nfamily. This gentleman's stories have been in my life since I was a kid. I \ncould send them care of the his publisher, Tor Books, and that would be \nrespectful of the family's privacy. Are other people on this list doing \nanything similar?\n\nEric\n\n*******\n Eric Bourland\n eb at hwaet.com\n\n----------------------------------------\nFrom: \"Eric Bourland\" \nSent: Monday, December 16, 2013 10:51 PM\nTo: urth at lists.urth.net\nSubject: re: Urth Digest, Vol 112, Issue 21\n\nBlue of cheek ... pale. That is how I read it. Since Severian is unusually \npale, I would suppose she would be commenting on that paleness. In certain \nwan light the cheek might look blue.\n\n*******\n Eric Bourland\n eb at hwaet.com\n\n----------------------------------------\nFrom: urth-request at lists.urth.net\nSent: Monday, December 16, 2013 5:13 PM\nTo: urth at lists.urth.net\nSubject: Urth Digest, Vol 112, Issue 21\n\nSend Urth mailing list submissions to\n\turth at lists.urth.net\n\nTo subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit\n\thttp://lists.urth.net/listinfo.cgi/urth-urth.net\nor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to\n\turth-request at lists.urth.net\n\nYou can reach the person managing the list at\n\turth-owner at lists.urth.net\n\nWhen replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific\nthan \"Re: Contents of Urth digest...\"\n\nToday's Topics:\n\n 1. Re: Editor in China requesting help with translation of\n certain sentences in BotNS (Antonin Scriabin)\n 2. Re: Rosemary Wolfe, R.I.P. (aaron)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nMessage: 1\nDate: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 15:54:56 -0500\nFrom: Antonin Scriabin \nTo: The Urth Mailing List \nSubject: Re: (urth) Editor in China requesting help with translation\n\tof certain sentences in BotNS\nMessage-ID:\n\t\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=\"windows-1252\"\n\nWell, \"bluer of cheek\" is a variation on the term \"blue-blood\", of course \na\nreference to nobility ... you could see the surface veins of those who,\nbecause of their stature in society, had very pale skin (they didn't have\nto work outside at physical labor, thus acquiring a tan).\n\nIn Solitaire, a black (or red) Jack is placed \"on top\" of a Queen of the\nopposite color (and a different suit, necessarily) ... so perhaps the\n\"elector\" is the Jack and the \"patroness\" is the Queen?\n\n\"Theocenter\" might simply mean \"godhead\", or a reference to the oneness \nand\nsimplicity thereof, as the root of all existence, in a Judeo-Christian\nsense. But don't quote me.\n\nNot sure about the other one, I'll have to page through my copy at home to\nget the full context.\n\nOn Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Daniel Otto Jack Petersen <\ndanielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote:\n\nGot this alert from the Goodreads Gene Wolfe group:\n\n\n\nhttps://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1614149-help-some-details-in-the-shadow\n“utm_medium=email&utm_source=comment_instant#comment_88705259\n\n\"I am a SF editor & Wolfe fan in China, and we are trying to publish The\nBook of New Sun in Chinese. I've done a lot of work in reading and\ntranslation , yet there are still some sentences I can't understand. Hope \nI\ncan get some help here.\n\nTHE HOUSE AZURE\nWhile I was undressing I said, ?Nevertheless, we all seek to discover \nwhat\nis real. Why is it” Perhaps we are drawn to the theocenter. That’s what \nthe\nhierophants say,that only that is true.\n\nwhat does \"theocenter\" mean? I can't find this word in dictionary nor \ncan\nI google it. and what does the whole sentence mean?\n--------------------------------------------\nTHE LAST YEAR\nI carried them to her, and she said my beard had shot up like them, and \nI\nshould be bluer of cheek than the run of common men, and the next day\nbegged my pardon for it, saying I was that already.\n\nwhat does \"bluer of cheek\"and \" run of common men\" mean here?\n-----------------------------------------\nDORCAS\n“Your pardon, sieur,” he said. “But I can’t come no nearer. Wet she may\nbe, but she gets too dry for me, or you couldn’t walk upon it.\n\nDoes \"she\" refer to the boat or Cas' body” what does the sentence mean?\n\n------------------------------------------\nTHE PLAY\nconfirm the outcome of a love affair by putting the elector of one suit\natop the patroness of another\n\nIf the word suit refer to the some card game, then what does \n\"elector\"and\n\"patroness\"mean?\"\n\n--\nDaniel Otto Jack Petersen\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<52B066D7.5060800@irit.fr>", "from": { "name": "Sergei SOLOVIEV", "address": "soloviev at irit.fr" }, "date": "2013-12-17T14:59:35+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Urth Digest, Vol 112, Issue 21", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I am not sure, but may be in this case it would be appropriate to sign \nsome sort of card collectively?\n\nSergei Soloviev" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Eric Bourland wrote:\nI'm usually quiet on this list, but appreciate its discussions every \nday. I find Ms. Rosemary's passing quite sad. I have never met Mr. or \nMrs. Wolfe, though for a while I lived approximately near them in Chicago.\n\nI would like to send flowers, or a brief simple card, to Mr. Wolfe's \nfamily. This gentleman's stories have been in my life since I was a \nkid. I could send them care of the his publisher, Tor Books, and that \nwould be respectful of the family's privacy. Are other people on this \nlist doing anything similar?\n\nEric\n\n*******\nEric Bourland\neb at hwaet.com\n\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n*From*: \"Eric Bourland\" \n*Sent*: Monday, December 16, 2013 10:51 PM\n*To*: urth at lists.urth.net\n*Subject*: re: Urth Digest, Vol 112, Issue 21\n\nBlue of cheek ... pale. That is how I read it. Since Severian is \nunusually pale, I would suppose she would be commenting on that \npaleness. In certain wan light the cheek might look blue.\n\n\n*******\nEric Bourland\neb at hwaet.com\n\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n*From*: urth-request at lists.urth.net\n*Sent*: Monday, December 16, 2013 5:13 PM\n*To*: urth at lists.urth.net\n*Subject*: Urth Digest, Vol 112, Issue 21\n\nSend Urth mailing list submissions to\nurth at lists.urth.net\n\nTo subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit\nhttp://lists.urth.net/listinfo.cgi/urth-urth.net\nor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to\nurth-request at lists.urth.net\n\nYou can reach the person managing the list at\nurth-owner at lists.urth.net\n\nWhen replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific\nthan \"Re: Contents of Urth digest...\"\n\n\nToday's Topics:\n\n1. Re: Editor in China requesting help with translation of\ncertain sentences in BotNS (Antonin Scriabin)\n2. Re: Rosemary Wolfe, R.I.P. (aaron)\n\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nMessage: 1\nDate: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 15:54:56 -0500\nFrom: Antonin Scriabin \nTo: The Urth Mailing List \nSubject: Re: (urth) Editor in China requesting help with translation\nof certain sentences in BotNS\nMessage-ID:\n\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=\"windows-1252\"\n\nWell, \"bluer of cheek\" is a variation on the term \"blue-blood\", of \ncourse a\nreference to nobility ... you could see the surface veins of those who,\nbecause of their stature in society, had very pale skin (they didn't have\nto work outside at physical labor, thus acquiring a tan).\n\nIn Solitaire, a black (or red) Jack is placed \"on top\" of a Queen of the\nopposite color (and a different suit, necessarily) ... so perhaps the\n\"elector\" is the Jack and the \"patroness\" is the Queen?\n\n\"Theocenter\" might simply mean \"godhead\", or a reference to the \noneness and\nsimplicity thereof, as the root of all existence, in a Judeo-Christian\nsense. But don't quote me.\n\nNot sure about the other one, I'll have to page through my copy at home to\nget the full context.\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Daniel Otto Jack Petersen <\ndanielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Got this alert from the Goodreads Gene Wolfe group:\n\n\nhttps://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1614149-help-some-details-in-the-shadow?utm_medium=email&utm_source=comment_instant#comment_88705259\n\n\"I am a SF editor & Wolfe fan in China, and we are trying to publish The\nBook of New Sun in Chinese. I've done a lot of work in reading and\ntranslation , yet there are still some sentences I can't understand. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Hope I\ncan get some help here." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "THE HOUSE AZURE\nWhile I was undressing I said, “Nevertheless, we all seek to discover \nwhat\nis real. Why is it” Perhaps we are drawn to the theocenter. That’s \nwhat the\nhierophants say,that only that is true.\n\nwhat does \"theocenter\" mean? I can't find this word in dictionary nor can\nI google it. and what does the whole sentence mean?\n--------------------------------------------\nTHE LAST YEAR\nI carried them to her, and she said my beard had shot up like them, and I\nshould be bluer of cheek than the run of common men, and the next day\nbegged my pardon for it, saying I was that already.\n\nwhat does \"bluer of cheek\"and \" run of common men\" mean here?\n-----------------------------------------\nDORCAS\n“Your pardon, sieur,” he said. “But I can’t come no nearer. Wet she may\nbe, but she gets too dry for me, or you couldn’t walk upon it.\n\nDoes \"she\" refer to the boat or Cas' body” what does the sentence mean?\n\n------------------------------------------\nTHE PLAY\nconfirm the outcome of a love affair by putting the elector of one suit\natop the patroness of another\n\nIf the word suit refer to the some card game, then what does \"elector\"and\n\"patroness\"mean?\"\n\n--\nDaniel Otto Jack Petersen\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<10847C97-D093-48FA-9E85-83CE6D6A2053@yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Craig Brewer", "address": "cnbrewer at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2013-12-18T14:17:15+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Urth Digest, Vol 112, Issue 21", "in_reply_to": "<52B066D7.5060800@irit.fr>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Agreed. This isn't the time to overwhelm someone with an uninvited deluge of correspondence and stuff. But a simple collective card from a group of concerned people seems appropriate." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Dec 17, 2013, at 8:59 AM, Sergei SOLOVIEV wrote:\nI am not sure, but may be in this case it would be appropriate to sign some sort of card collectively?\n\nSergei Soloviev\n\nEric Bourland wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I'm usually quiet on this list, but appreciate its discussions every day. I find Ms. Rosemary's passing quite sad. I have never met Mr. or Mrs. Wolfe, though for a while I lived approximately near them in Chicago.\n\nI would like to send flowers, or a brief simple card, to Mr. Wolfe's family. This gentleman's stories have been in my life since I was a kid. I could send them care of the his publisher, Tor Books, and that would be respectful of the family's privacy. Are other people on this list doing anything similar?\n\nEric\n\n*******\nEric Bourland\neb at hwaet.com\n\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n*From*: \"Eric Bourland\" \n*Sent*: Monday, December 16, 2013 10:51 PM\n*To*: urth at lists.urth.net\n*Subject*: re: Urth Digest, Vol 112, Issue 21\n\nBlue of cheek ... pale. That is how I read it. Since Severian is unusually pale, I would suppose she would be commenting on that paleness. In certain wan light the cheek might look blue.\n\n\n*******\nEric Bourland\neb at hwaet.com\n\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n*From*: urth-request at lists.urth.net\n*Sent*: Monday, December 16, 2013 5:13 PM\n*To*: urth at lists.urth.net\n*Subject*: Urth Digest, Vol 112, Issue 21\n\nSend Urth mailing list submissions to\nurth at lists.urth.net\n\nTo subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit\nhttp://lists.urth.net/listinfo.cgi/urth-urth.net\nor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to\nurth-request at lists.urth.net\n\nYou can reach the person managing the list at\nurth-owner at lists.urth.net\n\nWhen replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific\nthan \"Re: Contents of Urth digest...\"\n\n\nToday's Topics:\n\n1. Re: Editor in China requesting help with translation of\ncertain sentences in BotNS (Antonin Scriabin)\n2. Re: Rosemary Wolfe, R.I.P. (aaron)\n\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nMessage: 1\nDate: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 15:54:56 -0500\nFrom: Antonin Scriabin \nTo: The Urth Mailing List \nSubject: Re: (urth) Editor in China requesting help with translation\nof certain sentences in BotNS\nMessage-ID:\n\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=\"windows-1252\"\n\nWell, \"bluer of cheek\" is a variation on the term \"blue-blood\", of course a\nreference to nobility ... you could see the surface veins of those who,\nbecause of their stature in society, had very pale skin (they didn't have\nto work outside at physical labor, thus acquiring a tan).\n\nIn Solitaire, a black (or red) Jack is placed \"on top\" of a Queen of the\nopposite color (and a different suit, necessarily) ... so perhaps the\n\"elector\" is the Jack and the \"patroness\" is the Queen?\n\n\"Theocenter\" might simply mean \"godhead\", or a reference to the oneness and\nsimplicity thereof, as the root of all existence, in a Judeo-Christian\nsense. But don't quote me.\n\nNot sure about the other one, I'll have to page through my copy at home to\nget the full context.\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Daniel Otto Jack Petersen <\ndanielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Got this alert from the Goodreads Gene Wolfe group:\n\n\nhttps://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1614149-help-some-details-in-the-shadow?utm_medium=email&utm_source=comment_instant#comment_88705259\n\n\"I am a SF editor & Wolfe fan in China, and we are trying to publish The\nBook of New Sun in Chinese. I've done a lot of work in reading and\ntranslation , yet there are still some sentences I can't understand. Hope I\ncan get some help here.\n\nTHE HOUSE AZURE\nWhile I was undressing I said, “Nevertheless, we all seek to discover what\nis real. Why is it” Perhaps we are drawn to the theocenter. That’s what the\nhierophants say,that only that is true.\n\nwhat does \"theocenter\" mean? I can't find this word in dictionary nor can\nI google it. and what does the whole sentence mean?\n--------------------------------------------\nTHE LAST YEAR\nI carried them to her, and she said my beard had shot up like them, and I\nshould be bluer of cheek than the run of common men, and the next day\nbegged my pardon for it, saying I was that already.\n\nwhat does \"bluer of cheek\"and \" run of common men\" mean here?\n-----------------------------------------\nDORCAS\n“Your pardon, sieur,” he said. “But I can’t come no nearer. Wet she may\nbe, but she gets too dry for me, or you couldn’t walk upon it.\n\nDoes \"she\" refer to the boat or Cas' body” what does the sentence mean?\n\n------------------------------------------\nTHE PLAY\nconfirm the outcome of a love affair by putting the elector of one suit\natop the patroness of another\n\nIf the word suit refer to the some card game, then what does \"elector\"and\n\"patroness\"mean?\"\n\n--\nDaniel Otto Jack Petersen\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] } ] }