Urth Digest, Vol 112, Issue 21 The Urth list — 6 messages, 5 voices, 17 Dec 2013 https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6483 Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. ============================================================================== Eric Bourland — 17 Dec 2013, 03:51 Blue of cheek ... pale. That is how I read it. Since Severian is unusually pale, I would suppose she would be commenting on that paleness. In certain wan light the cheek might look blue. ******* Eric Bourland eb at hwaet.com ---------------------------------------- From: urth-request at lists.urth.net Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 5:13 PM To: urth at lists.urth.net Subject: Urth Digest, Vol 112, Issue 21 Send Urth mailing list submissions to urth at lists.urth.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.urth.net/listinfo.cgi/urth-urth.net or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to urth-request at lists.urth.net You can reach the person managing the list at urth-owner at lists.urth.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Urth digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Editor in China requesting help with translation of certain sentences in BotNS (Antonin Scriabin) 2. Re: Rosemary Wolfe, R.I.P. (aaron) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 15:54:56 -0500 > From: Antonin Scriabin > To: The Urth Mailing List > Subject: Re: (urth) Editor in China requesting help with translation > of certain sentences in BotNS > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Well, "bluer of cheek" is a variation on the term "blue-blood", of course > a > reference to nobility ... you could see the surface veins of those who, > because of their stature in society, had very pale skin (they didn't have > to work outside at physical labor, thus acquiring a tan). > > In Solitaire, a black (or red) Jack is placed "on top" of a Queen of the > opposite color (and a different suit, necessarily) ... so perhaps the > "elector" is the Jack and the "patroness" is the Queen? > > "Theocenter" might simply mean "godhead", or a reference to the oneness > and > simplicity thereof, as the root of all existence, in a Judeo-Christian > sense. But don't quote me. > > Not sure about the other one, I'll have to page through my copy at home to > get the full context. > > On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Daniel Otto Jack Petersen < > danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote: > > Got this alert from the Goodreads Gene Wolfe group: > > > > https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1614149-help-some-details-in-the-shadow > “utm_medium=email&utm_source=comment_instant#comment_88705259 > > "I am a SF editor & Wolfe fan in China, and we are trying to publish The > Book of New Sun in Chinese. I've done a lot of work in reading and > translation , yet there are still some sentences I can't understand. Hope > I > can get some help here. > > THE HOUSE AZURE > While I was undressing I said, ?Nevertheless, we all seek to discover > what > is real. Why is it” Perhaps we are drawn to the theocenter. That’s what > the > hierophants say,that only that is true. > > what does "theocenter" mean? I can't find this word in dictionary nor > can > I google it. and what does the whole sentence mean? > -------------------------------------------- > THE LAST YEAR > I carried them to her, and she said my beard had shot up like them, and > I > should be bluer of cheek than the run of common men, and the next day > begged my pardon for it, saying I was that already. > > what does "bluer of cheek"and " run of common men" mean here? > ----------------------------------------- > DORCAS > “Your pardon, sieur,” he said. “But I can’t come no nearer. Wet she may > be, but she gets too dry for me, or you couldn’t walk upon it. > > Does "she" refer to the boat or Cas' body” what does the sentence mean? > > ------------------------------------------ > THE PLAY > confirm the outcome of a love affair by putting the elector of one suit > atop the patroness of another > > If the word suit refer to the some card game, then what does > "elector"and > "patroness"mean?" > > -- > Daniel Otto Jack Petersen > > _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jeff Wilson — 17 Dec 2013, 04:46 in reply to Eric Bourland > On Mon, December 16, 2013 21:51, Eric Bourland wrote: > Blue of cheek ... pale. That is how I read it. Since Severian is unusually > pale, I would suppose she would be commenting on that paleness. In certain > wan light the cheek might look blue. A Dictionary of Slang, Jargon & Cant Embracing English, American ..., Volume 1 edited by Albert Barr re, Charles Godfrey Leland (1897) cites Outcasts of London by J. Greenwood for blue cheek as a style of wearing whiskers, shaved but leaving enough to color the cheek. Pale skin is also given to being called blue when chilled, but the cheeks are usually the last place in that condition, IMO. -- Jeff Wilson - < jwilson at clueland.com > A&M Texarkana Computational Intelligence Lab < http://www.tamut.edu/cil > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ David Stockhoff — 17 Dec 2013, 12:58 in reply to Jeff Wilson Or the second to last. > On 12/16/2013 11:46 PM, Jeff Wilson wrote: > Pale skin is also given to being called blue when chilled, but the cheeks > are usually the last place in that condition, IMO. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Bourland — 17 Dec 2013, 14:46 follows, by subject match David Stockhoff I'm usually quiet on this list, but appreciate its discussions every day. I find Ms. Rosemary's passing quite sad. I have never met Mr. or Mrs. Wolfe, though for a while I lived approximately near them in Chicago. I would like to send flowers, or a brief simple card, to Mr. Wolfe's family. This gentleman's stories have been in my life since I was a kid. I could send them care of the his publisher, Tor Books, and that would be respectful of the family's privacy. Are other people on this list doing anything similar? Eric ******* Eric Bourland eb at hwaet.com ---------------------------------------- From: "Eric Bourland" Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 10:51 PM To: urth at lists.urth.net Subject: re: Urth Digest, Vol 112, Issue 21 Blue of cheek ... pale. That is how I read it. Since Severian is unusually pale, I would suppose she would be commenting on that paleness. In certain wan light the cheek might look blue. ******* Eric Bourland eb at hwaet.com ---------------------------------------- From: urth-request at lists.urth.net Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 5:13 PM To: urth at lists.urth.net Subject: Urth Digest, Vol 112, Issue 21 Send Urth mailing list submissions to urth at lists.urth.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.urth.net/listinfo.cgi/urth-urth.net or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to urth-request at lists.urth.net You can reach the person managing the list at urth-owner at lists.urth.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Urth digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Editor in China requesting help with translation of certain sentences in BotNS (Antonin Scriabin) 2. Re: Rosemary Wolfe, R.I.P. (aaron) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 15:54:56 -0500 > From: Antonin Scriabin > To: The Urth Mailing List > Subject: Re: (urth) Editor in China requesting help with translation > of certain sentences in BotNS > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Well, "bluer of cheek" is a variation on the term "blue-blood", of course > a > reference to nobility ... you could see the surface veins of those who, > because of their stature in society, had very pale skin (they didn't have > to work outside at physical labor, thus acquiring a tan). > > In Solitaire, a black (or red) Jack is placed "on top" of a Queen of the > opposite color (and a different suit, necessarily) ... so perhaps the > "elector" is the Jack and the "patroness" is the Queen? > > "Theocenter" might simply mean "godhead", or a reference to the oneness > and > simplicity thereof, as the root of all existence, in a Judeo-Christian > sense. But don't quote me. > > Not sure about the other one, I'll have to page through my copy at home to > get the full context. > > On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Daniel Otto Jack Petersen < > danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote: > > Got this alert from the Goodreads Gene Wolfe group: > > > > https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1614149-help-some-details-in-the-shadow > “utm_medium=email&utm_source=comment_instant#comment_88705259 > > "I am a SF editor & Wolfe fan in China, and we are trying to publish The > Book of New Sun in Chinese. I've done a lot of work in reading and > translation , yet there are still some sentences I can't understand. Hope > I > can get some help here. > > THE HOUSE AZURE > While I was undressing I said, ?Nevertheless, we all seek to discover > what > is real. Why is it” Perhaps we are drawn to the theocenter. That’s what > the > hierophants say,that only that is true. > > what does "theocenter" mean? I can't find this word in dictionary nor > can > I google it. and what does the whole sentence mean? > -------------------------------------------- > THE LAST YEAR > I carried them to her, and she said my beard had shot up like them, and > I > should be bluer of cheek than the run of common men, and the next day > begged my pardon for it, saying I was that already. > > what does "bluer of cheek"and " run of common men" mean here? > ----------------------------------------- > DORCAS > “Your pardon, sieur,” he said. “But I can’t come no nearer. Wet she may > be, but she gets too dry for me, or you couldn’t walk upon it. > > Does "she" refer to the boat or Cas' body” what does the sentence mean? > > ------------------------------------------ > THE PLAY > confirm the outcome of a love affair by putting the elector of one suit > atop the patroness of another > > If the word suit refer to the some card game, then what does > "elector"and > "patroness"mean?" > > -- > Daniel Otto Jack Petersen > > _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sergei SOLOVIEV — 17 Dec 2013, 14:59 in reply to Eric Bourland I am not sure, but may be in this case it would be appropriate to sign some sort of card collectively? Sergei Soloviev > Eric Bourland wrote: > I'm usually quiet on this list, but appreciate its discussions every > day. I find Ms. Rosemary's passing quite sad. I have never met Mr. or > Mrs. Wolfe, though for a while I lived approximately near them in Chicago. > > I would like to send flowers, or a brief simple card, to Mr. Wolfe's > family. This gentleman's stories have been in my life since I was a > kid. I could send them care of the his publisher, Tor Books, and that > would be respectful of the family's privacy. Are other people on this > list doing anything similar? > > Eric > > ******* > Eric Bourland > eb at hwaet.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From*: "Eric Bourland" > *Sent*: Monday, December 16, 2013 10:51 PM > *To*: urth at lists.urth.net > *Subject*: re: Urth Digest, Vol 112, Issue 21 > > Blue of cheek ... pale. That is how I read it. Since Severian is > unusually pale, I would suppose she would be commenting on that > paleness. In certain wan light the cheek might look blue. > > > ******* > Eric Bourland > eb at hwaet.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From*: urth-request at lists.urth.net > *Sent*: Monday, December 16, 2013 5:13 PM > *To*: urth at lists.urth.net > *Subject*: Urth Digest, Vol 112, Issue 21 > > Send Urth mailing list submissions to > urth at lists.urth.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.urth.net/listinfo.cgi/urth-urth.net > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > urth-request at lists.urth.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > urth-owner at lists.urth.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Urth digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Editor in China requesting help with translation of > certain sentences in BotNS (Antonin Scriabin) > 2. Re: Rosemary Wolfe, R.I.P. (aaron) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 15:54:56 -0500 > From: Antonin Scriabin > To: The Urth Mailing List > Subject: Re: (urth) Editor in China requesting help with translation > of certain sentences in BotNS > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Well, "bluer of cheek" is a variation on the term "blue-blood", of > course a > reference to nobility ... you could see the surface veins of those who, > because of their stature in society, had very pale skin (they didn't have > to work outside at physical labor, thus acquiring a tan). > > In Solitaire, a black (or red) Jack is placed "on top" of a Queen of the > opposite color (and a different suit, necessarily) ... so perhaps the > "elector" is the Jack and the "patroness" is the Queen? > > "Theocenter" might simply mean "godhead", or a reference to the > oneness and > simplicity thereof, as the root of all existence, in a Judeo-Christian > sense. But don't quote me. > > Not sure about the other one, I'll have to page through my copy at home to > get the full context. > > > On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Daniel Otto Jack Petersen < > danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote: > > Got this alert from the Goodreads Gene Wolfe group: > > > > > > https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1614149-help-some-details-in-the-shadow?utm_medium=email&utm_source=comment_instant#comment_88705259 > > > > "I am a SF editor & Wolfe fan in China, and we are trying to publish The > > Book of New Sun in Chinese. I've done a lot of work in reading and > > translation , yet there are still some sentences I can't understand. > Hope I > can get some help here. > > THE HOUSE AZURE > > While I was undressing I said, “Nevertheless, we all seek to discover > > what > > is real. Why is it” Perhaps we are drawn to the theocenter. That’s > > what the > > hierophants say,that only that is true. > > > > what does "theocenter" mean? I can't find this word in dictionary nor can > > I google it. and what does the whole sentence mean? > > -------------------------------------------- > > THE LAST YEAR > > I carried them to her, and she said my beard had shot up like them, and I > > should be bluer of cheek than the run of common men, and the next day > > begged my pardon for it, saying I was that already. > > > > what does "bluer of cheek"and " run of common men" mean here? > > ----------------------------------------- > > DORCAS > > “Your pardon, sieur,” he said. “But I can’t come no nearer. Wet she may > > be, but she gets too dry for me, or you couldn’t walk upon it. > > > > Does "she" refer to the boat or Cas' body” what does the sentence mean? > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > THE PLAY > > confirm the outcome of a love affair by putting the elector of one suit > > atop the patroness of another > > > > If the word suit refer to the some card game, then what does "elector"and > > "patroness"mean?" > > > > -- > > Daniel Otto Jack Petersen > > > > _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Craig Brewer — 18 Dec 2013, 14:17 in reply to Sergei SOLOVIEV Agreed. This isn't the time to overwhelm someone with an uninvited deluge of correspondence and stuff. But a simple collective card from a group of concerned people seems appropriate. > On Dec 17, 2013, at 8:59 AM, Sergei SOLOVIEV wrote: > I am not sure, but may be in this case it would be appropriate to sign some sort of card collectively? > > Sergei Soloviev > > Eric Bourland wrote: > > I'm usually quiet on this list, but appreciate its discussions every day. I find Ms. Rosemary's passing quite sad. I have never met Mr. or Mrs. Wolfe, though for a while I lived approximately near them in Chicago. > > > > I would like to send flowers, or a brief simple card, to Mr. Wolfe's family. This gentleman's stories have been in my life since I was a kid. I could send them care of the his publisher, Tor Books, and that would be respectful of the family's privacy. Are other people on this list doing anything similar? > > > > Eric > > > > ******* > > Eric Bourland > > eb at hwaet.com > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From*: "Eric Bourland" > > *Sent*: Monday, December 16, 2013 10:51 PM > > *To*: urth at lists.urth.net > > *Subject*: re: Urth Digest, Vol 112, Issue 21 > > > > Blue of cheek ... pale. That is how I read it. Since Severian is unusually pale, I would suppose she would be commenting on that paleness. In certain wan light the cheek might look blue. > > > > > > ******* > > Eric Bourland > > eb at hwaet.com > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From*: urth-request at lists.urth.net > > *Sent*: Monday, December 16, 2013 5:13 PM > > *To*: urth at lists.urth.net > > *Subject*: Urth Digest, Vol 112, Issue 21 > > > > Send Urth mailing list submissions to > > urth at lists.urth.net > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://lists.urth.net/listinfo.cgi/urth-urth.net > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > urth-request at lists.urth.net > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > urth-owner at lists.urth.net > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Urth digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: Editor in China requesting help with translation of > > certain sentences in BotNS (Antonin Scriabin) > > 2. Re: Rosemary Wolfe, R.I.P. (aaron) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 15:54:56 -0500 > > From: Antonin Scriabin > > To: The Urth Mailing List > > Subject: Re: (urth) Editor in China requesting help with translation > > of certain sentences in BotNS > > Message-ID: > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > > > Well, "bluer of cheek" is a variation on the term "blue-blood", of course a > > reference to nobility ... you could see the surface veins of those who, > > because of their stature in society, had very pale skin (they didn't have > > to work outside at physical labor, thus acquiring a tan). > > > > In Solitaire, a black (or red) Jack is placed "on top" of a Queen of the > > opposite color (and a different suit, necessarily) ... so perhaps the > > "elector" is the Jack and the "patroness" is the Queen? > > > > "Theocenter" might simply mean "godhead", or a reference to the oneness and > > simplicity thereof, as the root of all existence, in a Judeo-Christian > > sense. But don't quote me. > > > > Not sure about the other one, I'll have to page through my copy at home to > > get the full context. > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Daniel Otto Jack Petersen < > > danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote: > > > Got this alert from the Goodreads Gene Wolfe group: > > > > > > > > > https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1614149-help-some-details-in-the-shadow?utm_medium=email&utm_source=comment_instant#comment_88705259 > > > > > > "I am a SF editor & Wolfe fan in China, and we are trying to publish The > > > Book of New Sun in Chinese. I've done a lot of work in reading and > > > translation , yet there are still some sentences I can't understand. Hope I > > > can get some help here. > > > > > > THE HOUSE AZURE > > > While I was undressing I said, “Nevertheless, we all seek to discover what > > > is real. Why is it” Perhaps we are drawn to the theocenter. That’s what the > > > hierophants say,that only that is true. > > > > > > what does "theocenter" mean? I can't find this word in dictionary nor can > > > I google it. and what does the whole sentence mean? > > > -------------------------------------------- > > > THE LAST YEAR > > > I carried them to her, and she said my beard had shot up like them, and I > > > should be bluer of cheek than the run of common men, and the next day > > > begged my pardon for it, saying I was that already. > > > > > > what does "bluer of cheek"and " run of common men" mean here? > > > ----------------------------------------- > > > DORCAS > > > “Your pardon, sieur,” he said. “But I can’t come no nearer. Wet she may > > > be, but she gets too dry for me, or you couldn’t walk upon it. > > > > > > Does "she" refer to the boat or Cas' body” what does the sentence mean? > > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > > THE PLAY > > > confirm the outcome of a love affair by putting the elector of one suit > > > atop the patroness of another > > > > > > If the word suit refer to the some card game, then what does "elector"and > > > "patroness"mean?" > > > > > > -- > > > Daniel Otto Jack Petersen > > > > > > _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------