{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6506", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 6506, "subject": "George MacDonald and Peace -Phantastes?", "messages": 4, "voices": 3, "first": "2014-01-05T19:09:17+00:00", "last": "2014-01-06T02:32:42+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<1388948957.91348.YahooMailNeo@web160705.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2014-01-05T19:09:17+00:00", "subject": "(urth) George MacDonald and Peace -Phantastes?", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, as we all know, Peace references Lang's Green Fairy Book, Ludwig's biography of Napoleon, some of the fictional literature mentioned in Lovecraft like the Cultes des Goules, the Necronomicon, and Marvells of Science (Ambrose Bierce is involved there, too). There is an additional mention of the tales of George MacDonald near Lang's book, and even though I am thorough, I wasn't about to read the collected works of MacDonald before finishing my Peace write up. So the decision was to look over the more famous work and see if anything resonated. \n\nMaybe Phantastes: A Faerie Romance for Men and Women does just a bit?- it begins on the hero's 21st birthday when his room becomes a natural wood and he crosses into Fairy Land, and he is warned that the Ash Tree and the Alder Tree spirits seek to destroy him, spirits which can leave their trees. Interestingly enough, the Ash tree is in the Olive tree family, and the Alder Tree is related to the elm. He finds a statue by Pygmalion which flees from him, and eventually, he dies in fairy land to wake back up into the real world, thinking that he had been there 21 years when it was only 21 days. While birthdays, deaths, and living statues are not necessarily anything unusual in fantasy, I felt that perhaps there was some, at the very least, riffing on some of these themes, what with the two trees in front of Mr. Tilly's house, a man becoming a living statue, though these are not precise linkages.\n\nThe Princess and the Goblin didn't seem to fit too well thematically, save for the old \"who will the princess marry?\" connection - but that could be about half of all pre 20th century literature." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2014-01-06T01:33:35+00:00", "subject": "(urth) George MacDonald and Peace -Phantastes?", "in_reply_to": "<1388948957.91348.YahooMailNeo@web160705.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I would think that the most obvious MacDonald conneciton would be with\nLILITH." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Marc Aramini wrote:\nWell, as we all know, Peace references Lang's Green Fairy Book, Ludwig's\nbiography of Napoleon, some of the fictional literature mentioned in\nLovecraft like the Cultes des Goules, the Necronomicon, and Marvells of\nScience (Ambrose Bierce is involved there, too). There is an additional\nmention of the tales of George MacDonald near Lang's book, and even though\nI am thorough, I wasn't about to read the collected works of MacDonald\nbefore finishing my Peace write up. So the decision was to look over the\nmore famous work and see if anything resonated.\n\nMaybe Phantastes: A Faerie Romance for Men and Women does just a bit - it\nbegins on the hero's 21st birthday when his room becomes a natural wood and\nhe crosses into Fairy Land, and he is warned that the Ash Tree and the\nAlder Tree spirits seek to destroy him, spirits which can leave their\ntrees. Interestingly enough, the Ash tree is in the Olive tree family, and\nthe Alder Tree is related to the elm. He finds a statue by Pygmalion which\nflees from him, and eventually, he dies in fairy land to wake back up into\nthe real world, thinking that he had been there 21 years when it was only\n21 days. While birthdays, deaths, and living statues are not necessarily\nanything unusual in fantasy, I felt that perhaps there was some, at the\nvery least, riffing on some of these themes, what with the two trees in\nfront of Mr. Tilly's house, a man becoming a living statue, though these\nare not precise linkages.\n\nThe Princess and the Goblin didn't seem to fit too well thematically, save\nfor the old \"who will the princess marry?\" connection - but that could\nbe about half of all pre 20th century literature.\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2014-01-06T01:44:20+00:00", "subject": "(urth) George MacDonald and Peace -Phantastes?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think you are right from the synopsis I just glanced at, ghost of the librarian as a raven, life, death, salvation, sleeping until the end of the world, finding true life in death ... Sounds about right. \n\n\nSent from my iPhone" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Jan 5, 2014, at 6:33 PM, \"Dan'l Danehy-Oakes\" wrote:\nI would think that the most obvious MacDonald conneciton would be with LILITH.\n\n\nOn Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Marc Aramini wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Well, as we all know, Peace references Lang's Green Fairy Book, Ludwig's biography of Napoleon, some of the fictional literature mentioned in Lovecraft like the Cultes des Goules, the Necronomicon, and Marvells of Science (Ambrose Bierce is involved there, too). There is an additional mention of the tales of George MacDonald near Lang's book, and even though I am thorough, I wasn't about to read the collected works of MacDonald before finishing my Peace write up. So the decision was to look over the more famous work and see if anything resonated. \n\nMaybe Phantastes: A Faerie Romance for Men and Women does just a bit - it begins on the hero's 21st birthday when his room becomes a natural wood and he crosses into Fairy Land, and he is warned that the Ash Tree and the Alder Tree spirits seek to destroy him, spirits which can leave their trees. Interestingly enough, the Ash tree is in the Olive tree family, and the Alder Tree is related to the elm. He finds a statue by Pygmalion which flees from him, and eventually, he dies in fairy land to wake back up into the real world, thinking that he had been there 21 years when it was only 21 days. While birthdays, deaths, and living statues are not necessarily anything unusual in fantasy, I felt that perhaps there was some, at the very least, riffing on some of these themes, what with the two trees in front of Mr. Tilly's house, a man becoming a living statue, though these are not precise linkages.\n\nThe Princess and the Goblin didn't seem to fit too well thematically, save for the old \"who will the princess marry?\" connection - but that could be about half of all pre 20th century literature.\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<52CA15CA.7060803@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2014-01-06T02:32:42+00:00", "subject": "(urth) George MacDonald and Peace -Phantastes?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Phantastes seems to fit Sorcerer's House in some ways too." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 1/5/2014 8:44 PM, Marc Aramini wrote:\nI think you are right from the synopsis I just glanced at, ghost of \nthe librarian as a raven, life, death, salvation, sleeping until the \nend of the world, finding true life in death ... Sounds about right.\n\n\nSent from my iPhone\n\nOn Jan 5, 2014, at 6:33 PM, \"Dan'l Danehy-Oakes\" > wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I would think that the most obvious MacDonald conneciton would be \nwith LILITH.\n\n\nOn Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Marc Aramini > wrote:\n\n Well, as we all know, Peace references Lang's Green Fairy Book,\n Ludwig's biography of Napoleon, some of the fictional literature\n mentioned in Lovecraft like the Cultes des Goules, the\n Necronomicon, and Marvells of Science (Ambrose Bierce is involved\n there, too). There is an additional mention of the tales of\n George MacDonald near Lang's book, and even though I am thorough,\n I wasn't about to read the collected works of MacDonald before\n finishing my Peace write up. So the decision was to look over\n the more famous work and see if anything resonated.\n\n Maybe Phantastes: A Faerie Romance for Men and Women does just a\n bit - it begins on the hero's 21st birthday when his room becomes\n a natural wood and he crosses into Fairy Land, and he is warned\n that the Ash Tree and the Alder Tree spirits seek to destroy him,\n spirits which can leave their trees. Interestingly enough, the\n Ash tree is in the Olive tree family, and the Alder Tree is\n related to the elm. He finds a statue by Pygmalion which flees\n from him, and eventually, he dies in fairy land to wake back up\n into the real world, thinking that he had been there 21 years\n when it was only 21 days. While birthdays, deaths, and living\n statues are not necessarily anything unusual in fantasy, I felt\n that perhaps there was some, at the very least, riffing on some\n of these themes, what with the two trees in front of Mr. Tilly's\n house, a man becoming a living statue, though these are not\n precise linkages.\n\n The Princess and the Goblin didn't seem to fit too well\n thematically, save for the old \"who will the princess marry?\"\n connection - but that could be about half of all pre 20th century\n literature.\n\n _______________________________________________" } ] } ] }