{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6550", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 6550, "subject": "Cloud Atlas and Typhon", "messages": 5, "voices": 4, "first": "2014-05-18T07:23:18+00:00", "last": "2014-05-19T00:32:22+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<63D2F7D23DEF98438CC93DB3D023726C25B74645@g1gsn0bms013>", "from": { "name": "Carter, Nicholas British Council", "address": "nicholas.carter at britishcouncil.or.jp" }, "date": "2014-05-18T07:23:18+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Cloud Atlas and Typhon", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm reading Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell at the moment. In the middle narrative, set some thousands of years in a future post-apocalyptic Hawaii, the narrator and his companion climb to the top of a mountain, using for part of the journey forbidden metalled roads built by the ancients. At the top of the mountain they enter a compound of solar and stellar observatories.\n\nTen-twelve temples waited here'n'there, white'n'silv'ry an' gold'n'bronze with squat bodies'n'round crowns an' mostly windowless. The nearest un was jus' a hun'erd paces away, an' we set off for it first. I asked if this was where Old Uns worshiped their Smart.\n\nHaunted by a feeling of unrightness, of being watched, the narrator watches as his companion finds a way into the central building.\n\nHow she got that observ'tree door open, I ain't knowin' so don't mozzie me. A sort of umb'licky cord b'tween the door's dusted 'n'rusty niche an' her orison-egg worked in a beat or two. ... A sharp hiss as the observ'tree door cracked open. Air guffed out stale'n'sour like it was breathed b'fore the Fall an', yay, so it prob'ly was. In we stepped an' what did we find?\nDescribin' such Smart ain't easy. Gear there was what we ain't mem'ried on Ha-Why, so its names ain't mem'ried neither, yay, almost nothin' in there could I cogg. Shimm'rin' floors, white walls 'n'roofs, one great chamber, round'n'sunk, filled by a mighty tube wider'n a man an' longer'n five what Meronym named a radyo tel'scope what was, she said, the furthest-seein' eye Old Uns ever made. Ev'rythin' white'n'pure as Sonmi's robes, yay, not one flea o' dirt 'cept what we tromped in. Tables'n'chairs sat round waitin' for sitters on balconies made o' steel so our foots gonged.\nAnd\n This gen'rator's innards was diff'rent from other buildin's. The Prescient woman glowed with fass'nation as we stepped into the echoey chambers, but I din't. See, I knowed we wasn't alone in there. Shipwoman din't b'lief me, o' course, but in the biggest space where a mighty iron heart stood silent was a sort o' throne s'rounded by tables o' littl' windows an' numbers'n'all, an' on this throne was a died Old-Un priest slumpin' under an arched window. The Prescient swallowed hard an' peered close. A chief stron'mer, I reck'n, she spoke hushly, he must o' soosided here when the Fall came, an' the sealed air's saved his body from rottin'. A priest-king not a chief, I reck'ned, in such a wondersome palace. She got to work mem'ryin' ev'ry inch o' that doomin' place on her orison while I 'proached nearer that priest-king from the world o' perfect Civ'lize. His hair straggled an' his nails was hooky an' the years'd shrunk'n'sagged his face some sure, but his Smart sky clothes was spiff'n'fine, sapphires pierced his ear, an' he mem'ried me of Unc' Bees, same hoggy nose, yay.\n\nUnlike in BOTNS, the body only has one head and doesn't come back to corporeal life. Nonetheless, the narrator is tempted, or imagines he is tempted by the long-dead figure, who he conflates with his tribe's Satan-figure. He resists the temptation. (The companion is a visitor a figure from a more technologically-advanced strand of survivors, who are benign in intent but who on principle won't aid the local populace beyond the level of the current technology they have reached or aid them in their battles with their savage enemies)\n\nThe extracts above are of course closer in voice to Riddley Walker than Severian, and I've found no reference at all to Wolfe in Mitchell's interviews. Mitchell freely confesses to pastiche in the novel, (Hoban, William Gibson, Chandler, Isherwood, Melville etc ) and so I think it's unlikely he's referencing BoTNS. He comes from the tradition of literary authors dabbling in science fiction, anathema to many SF fans. However, he does at least, in Borges, Lewis Carroll, Nabokov and others, share some of the same influences as Wolfe. I wonder how the two authors' separate paths led them to haunted mountain tops and the preserved artefacts of a crumbled, self-defeating civilisation, presided over by the preserved body of a hubristic 'king'.\n\n\n\n\nThe British Council is the United Kingdom's international organisation for cultural relations and educational opportunities. We are a registered charity; 209131 (England and Wales) SC037733 (Scotland). We create international opportunities for the people of the UK and other countries and build trust between them worldwide.\n\nThis message is for the use of the intended recipient(s) only. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it. The British Council accepts no liability for loss or damage caused by software viruses and you are advised to carry out a virus check on any attachments contained in this message." } ] }, { "message_id": "<5378A41B.4030507@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2014-05-18T12:14:19+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Cloud Atlas and Typhon", "in_reply_to": "<63D2F7D23DEF98438CC93DB3D023726C25B74645@g1gsn0bms013>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Interesting. I'll have to read that---I don't know anything about it.\n\nI have one question to start: is Mitchell Catholic?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 5/18/2014 3:23 AM, Carter, Nicholas (British Council) wrote:\n\nI'm reading Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell at the moment. In the middle \nnarrative, set some thousands of years in a future post-apocalyptic \nHawaii, the narrator and his companion climb to the top of a mountain, \nusing for part of the journey forbidden metalled roads built by the \nancients. At the top of the mountain they enter a compound of solar \nand stellar observatories.\n\n/Ten--twelve temples waited here'n'there, white'n'silv'ry an' \ngold'n'bronze with squat bodies'n'round crowns an' mostly windowless. \nThe nearest un was jus' a hun'erd paces away, an' we set off for it \nfirst. I asked if this was where Old Uns worshiped their Smart./\n\n//\n\nHaunted by a feeling of unrightness, of being watched, the narrator \nwatches as his companion finds a way into the central building.\n\n/How she got that observ'tree door open, I ain't knowin' so don't \nmozzie me. A sort of umb'licky cord b'tween the door's dusted 'n'rusty \nniche an' her orison-egg worked in a beat or two. ... A sharp hiss as \nthe observ'tree door cracked open. Air guffed out stale'n'sour like it \nwas breathed b'fore the Fall an', yay, so it prob'ly was. In we \nstepped an' what did we find?/\n\n/Describin' such Smart ain't easy. Gear there was what we ain't \nmem'ried on Ha-Why, so its names ain't mem'ried neither, yay, almost \nnothin' in there could I cogg. Shimm'rin' floors, white walls \n'n'roofs, one great chamber, round'n'sunk, filled by a mighty tube \nwider'n a man an' longer'n five what Meronym named a radyo \ntel'scope what was, she said, the furthest-seein' eye Old Uns ever \nmade. Ev'rythin' white'n'pure as Sonmi's robes, yay, not one flea o' \ndirt 'cept what we tromped in. Tables'n'chairs sat round waitin' for \nsitters on balconies made o' steel so our foots gonged./\n\nAnd\n\n/ This gen'rator's innards was diff'rent from other buildin's. The \nPrescient woman glowed with fass'nation as we stepped into the echoey \nchambers, but I din't. See, I knowed we wasn't alone in there. \nShipwoman din't b'lief me, o' course, but in the biggest space where a \nmighty iron heart stood silent was a sort o' throne s'rounded by \ntables o' littl' windows an' numbers'n'all, an' on this throne was a \ndied Old-Un priest slumpin' under an arched window. The Prescient \nswallowed hard an' peered close. A chief stron'mer, I reck'n, she \nspoke hushly, he must o' soosided here when the Fall came, an' the \nsealed air's saved his body from rottin'. A priest-king not a chief, I \nreck'ned, in such a wondersome palace. She got to work mem'ryin' ev'ry \ninch o' that doomin' place on her orison while I 'proached nearer that \npriest-king from the world o' perfect Civ'lize. His hair straggled an' \nhis nails was hooky an' the years'd shrunk'n'sagged his face some \nsure, but his Smart sky clothes was spiff'n'fine, sapphires pierced \nhis ear, an' he mem'ried me of Unc' Bees, same hoggy nose, yay./\n\n//\n\nUnlike in BOTNS, the body only has one head and doesn't come back to \ncorporeal life. Nonetheless, the narrator is tempted, or imagines he \nis tempted by the long-dead figure, who he conflates with his tribe's \nSatan-figure. He resists the temptation.(The companion is a visitor a \nfigure from a more technologically-advanced strand of survivors, who \nare benign in intent but who on principle won't aid the local populace \nbeyond the level of the current technology they have reached or aid \nthem in their battles with their savage enemies)\n\nThe extracts above are of course closer in voice to Riddley Walker \nthan Severian, and I've found no reference at all to Wolfe in \nMitchell's interviews. Mitchell freely confesses to pastiche in the \nnovel, (Hoban, William Gibson, Chandler, Isherwood, Melville etc ) and \nso I think it's unlikely he's referencing BoTNS. He comes from the \ntradition of literary authors dabbling in science fiction, anathema to \nmany SF fans. However, he does at least, in Borges, Lewis Carroll, \nNabokov and others, share some of the same influences as Wolfe. I \nwonder how the two authors' separate paths led them to haunted \nmountain tops and the preserved artefacts of a crumbled, \nself-defeating civilisation, presided over by the preserved body of a \nhubristic 'king'.\n\n//\n\n//\n\n\nThe British Council is the United Kingdom's international organisation \nfor cultural relations and educational opportunities. We are a \nregistered charity; 209131 (England and Wales) SC037733 (Scotland). We \ncreate international opportunities for the people of the UK and other \ncountries and build trust between them worldwide.\n\nThis message is for the use of the intended recipient(s) only. If you \nhave received this message in error, please notify the sender and \ndelete it. The British Council accepts no liability for loss or damage \ncaused by software viruses and you are advised to carry out a virus \ncheck on any attachments contained in this message.\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Nicholas Carter", "address": "sniffer8 at live.com" }, "date": "2014-05-18T23:49:08+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Cloud Atlas and Typhon", "in_reply_to": "<5378A41B.4030507@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I have one question to start: is Mitchell Catholic?From a Mitchell interview:Q: Faith plays an important role in your books, what's your own attitude towards religion?A: I am a kind of secular Buddhist. I meditate and find it very helpful, and Buddhism doesn't ask me to sacrifice my rationality or my common sense, it doesn't ask me to believe the impossible. I find it helpful to keep my mind under control, sane and calm. What happens after we die — I don't know, and I'm happy not to know. I feel I have no choice but to not know. Buddhism doesn't care if I don't accept its cosmology, I don't have to believe it all.\nEternal Recurrence, in a non-Nietzschean sense, is one of the tropes of Cloud Atlas. \n \t\t \t \t\t " } ] }, { "message_id": "<53794AF2.4040701@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2014-05-19T00:06:10+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Cloud Atlas and Typhon", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Not too surprised. Does he give Milton or the Bible as influences?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 5/18/2014 7:49 PM, Nicholas Carter wrote:\n/I have one question to start: is Mitchell Catholic?/\n From a Mitchell interview:\n\n*Q: Faith plays an important role in your books, what's your own \nattitude towards religion?*\n\nA: I am a kind of secular Buddhist. I meditate and find it very \nhelpful, and Buddhism doesn't ask me to sacrifice my rationality or my \ncommon sense, it doesn't ask me to believe the impossible. I find it \nhelpful to keep my mind under control, sane and calm. What happens \nafter we die --- I don't know, and I'm happy not to know. I feel I \nhave no choice but to not know. Buddhism doesn't care if I don't \naccept its cosmology, I don't have to believe it all.\n\nEternal Recurrence, in a non-Nietzschean sense, is one of the tropes \nof Cloud Atlas.\n\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "David Duffy", "address": "david.duffy at qimr.edu.au" }, "date": "2014-05-19T00:32:22+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Cloud Atlas and Typhon", "in_reply_to": "<63D2F7D23DEF98438CC93DB3D023726C25B74645@g1gsn0bms013>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sun, 18 May 2014, Carter, Nicholas (British Council) wrote:\nThe extracts above are of course closer in voice to Riddley Walker than \nSeverian, and I've found no reference at all to Wolfe in Mitchell's \ninterviews. Mitchell freely confesses to pastiche in the novel, (Hoban, \nWilliam Gibson, Chandler, Isherwood, Melville etc ) and so I think it's \nunlikely he's referencing BoTNS. He comes from the tradition of literary \nauthors dabbling in science fiction, anathema to many SF fans. However, \nhe does at least, in Borges, Lewis Carroll, Nabokov and others, share \nsome of the same influences as Wolfe. I wonder how the two authors' \nseparate paths led them to haunted mountain tops and the preserved \nartefacts of a crumbled, self-defeating civilisation, presided over by \nthe preserved body of a hubristic 'king'." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't think, based on interviews and on reading _Ghostwritten_ and \n_Cloud Atlas_, that one can regard him as a dabbler, but his main \ninterests lie in other directions...\n\nhttp://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/6034/the-art-of-fiction-no-204-david-mitchell\n\nINTERVIEWER Did you, like Jason, write poetry under a pseudonym for the \nparish newsletter?\n\nMITCHELL I did.\n\nINTERVIEWER Was your pseudonym the same as Jason’s: Eliot Bolivar?\n\nMITCHELL James Bolivar?after a character created by an American \nscience-fiction writer, Harry Harrison. I’ve never told anyone that \nbefore. You can see why.\n\nCheeres, David Duffy." } ] } ] }