{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6566", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 6566, "subject": "The outsider (Lovecraft)", "messages": 5, "voices": 3, "first": "2014-06-30T15:43:53+00:00", "last": "2014-06-30T18:39:53+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "António Marques", "address": "entonio at gmail.com" }, "date": "2014-06-30T15:43:53+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The outsider (Lovecraft)", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hi.\nFor some reason, I'd never read this short piece. Now I'm trying to fill\nthe blanks in some authors, I've come across it:\n\nhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outsider_(short_story)\nhttp://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/o.aspx\n\nAnd you know what? The language rings very Wolfean. At first sight, it's a\nlame gothic tale. And there's really nothing hidden below that. But it can\nalso be a lot of things if you want to read them into it.\nWhat I find interesting is that not only it could have been written by\nSeverian, up to the last word, some imagery is very evocative. And then the\nwords themselves. I'd have a very hard time believing the corpses that\n*strewed* Severian's battlefield came from anywhere else, even if the image\nis different, but what got me wondering was if, with such gleaning going\non, the name 'Outsider' has got some connection with this story too. Yes,\nat first sight there's no relationship to be found.\nI couldn't find any discussion of this story in connection to Wolfe - after\nall, why should there be?. Do you know of any? All I could find were\nanalyses of 'An Evil Guest', which I have yet to read." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Fred Kiesche", "address": "godelescherbach at gmail.com" }, "date": "2014-06-30T15:47:08+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The outsider (Lovecraft)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "If it's Wolfean, then Wolfe is Lovecraftian and--more to the core--Poesian,\nas this was definitely one of Eich-Pee-El's pieces most inspired by E.A.\nPoe." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Ant?nio Marques wrote:\nHi.\nFor some reason, I'd never read this short piece. Now I'm trying to fill\nthe blanks in some authors, I've come across it:\n\nhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outsider_(short_story)\nhttp://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/o.aspx\n\nAnd you know what? The language rings very Wolfean. At first sight, it's a\nlame gothic tale. And there's really nothing hidden below that. But it can\nalso be a lot of things if you want to read them into it.\nWhat I find interesting is that not only it could have been written by\nSeverian, up to the last word, some imagery is very evocative. And then the\nwords themselves. I'd have a very hard time believing the corpses that\n*strewed* Severian's battlefield came from anywhere else, even if the image\nis different, but what got me wondering was if, with such gleaning going\non, the name 'Outsider' has got some connection with this story too. Yes,\nat first sight there's no relationship to be found.\nI couldn't find any discussion of this story in connection to Wolfe -\nafter all, why should there be?. Do you know of any? All I could find were\nanalyses of 'An Evil Guest', which I have yet to read.\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "António Marques", "address": "entonio at gmail.com" }, "date": "2014-06-30T16:55:13+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The outsider (Lovecraft)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes, of course. My choice of words is due to the fact hat 1) I don't get\nthis Wolfean linguistic ring from the rest of HPL and 2) tho I agree many\nof the piece's elements are quite inspired by Poe, I don't think it would\nhave been written by Poe. Can't quite say why. I can see Poe writing 'The\nMusic of Erich Zann', or any of the stories that revolve around corpses,\nbut for some reason not this one." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 30 June 2014 16:47, Fred Kiesche wrote:\nIf it's Wolfean, then Wolfe is Lovecraftian and--more to the\ncore--Poesian, as this was definitely one of Eich-Pee-El's pieces most\ninspired by E.A. Poe.\n\n\nOn Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Ant?nio Marques \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Hi.\nFor some reason, I'd never read this short piece. Now I'm trying to fill\nthe blanks in some authors, I've come across it:\n\nhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outsider_(short_story)\nhttp://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/o.aspx\n\nAnd you know what? The language rings very Wolfean. At first sight, it's\na lame gothic tale. And there's really nothing hidden below that. But it\ncan also be a lot of things if you want to read them into it.\nWhat I find interesting is that not only it could have been written by\nSeverian, up to the last word, some imagery is very evocative. And then the\nwords themselves. I'd have a very hard time believing the corpses that\n*strewed* Severian's battlefield came from anywhere else, even if the image\nis different, but what got me wondering was if, with such gleaning going\non, the name 'Outsider' has got some connection with this story too. Yes,\nat first sight there's no relationship to be found.\nI couldn't find any discussion of this story in connection to Wolfe -\nafter all, why should there be?. Do you know of any? All I could find were\nanalyses of 'An Evil Guest', which I have yet to read.\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Fred Kiesche", "address": "godelescherbach at gmail.com" }, "date": "2014-06-30T17:02:37+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The outsider (Lovecraft)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "HPL walked the streets of Paris with Poe. In a dream." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 12:55 PM, Ant?nio Marques wrote:\nYes, of course. My choice of words is due to the fact hat 1) I don't get\nthis Wolfean linguistic ring from the rest of HPL and 2) tho I agree many\nof the piece's elements are quite inspired by Poe, I don't think it would\nhave been written by Poe. Can't quite say why. I can see Poe writing 'The\nMusic of Erich Zann', or any of the stories that revolve around corpses,\nbut for some reason not this one.\n\n\nOn 30 June 2014 16:47, Fred Kiesche wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "If it's Wolfean, then Wolfe is Lovecraftian and--more to the\ncore--Poesian, as this was definitely one of Eich-Pee-El's pieces most\ninspired by E.A. Poe.\n\n\nOn Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Ant?nio Marques \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": " Hi.\nFor some reason, I'd never read this short piece. Now I'm trying to fill\nthe blanks in some authors, I've come across it:\n\nhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outsider_(short_story)\nhttp://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/o.aspx\n\nAnd you know what? The language rings very Wolfean. At first sight, it's\na lame gothic tale. And there's really nothing hidden below that. But it\ncan also be a lot of things if you want to read them into it.\nWhat I find interesting is that not only it could have been written by\nSeverian, up to the last word, some imagery is very evocative. And then the\nwords themselves. I'd have a very hard time believing the corpses that\n*strewed* Severian's battlefield came from anywhere else, even if the image\nis different, but what got me wondering was if, with such gleaning going\non, the name 'Outsider' has got some connection with this story too. Yes,\nat first sight there's no relationship to be found.\nI couldn't find any discussion of this story in connection to Wolfe -\nafter all, why should there be?. Do you know of any? All I could find were\nanalyses of 'An Evil Guest', which I have yet to read.\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Daniel Otto Jack Petersen", "address": "danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com" }, "date": "2014-06-30T18:39:53+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The outsider (Lovecraft)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm glad you brought this up. I've always thought the most interesting\nthing about Wolfe's divine Outsider as compared to Lovecraft's Outsider is\nthat both are monsters of sorts: non-canonical, subterranean, tenebrous,\nsubversive. It's part of the devious theological genius of Wolfe that he\ncasts his 'true God' as an outcast, a creature of the night as it were, a\nmonster. I think part of Wolfe's theological impulse is to see the\nChristian deity anew in a Chestertonian 'upside down' sort of way and this\nvery obscure (but valid, I think) connection to Lovecraft's Outsider is one\nof the ways he achieves that *'mooreeffoc'\n* epiphany.\n\n-DOJP" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 6:02 PM, Fred Kiesche \nwrote:\nHPL walked the streets of Paris with Poe. In a dream.\n\n\nOn Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 12:55 PM, Ant?nio Marques \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Yes, of course. My choice of words is due to the fact hat 1) I don't get\nthis Wolfean linguistic ring from the rest of HPL and 2) tho I agree many\nof the piece's elements are quite inspired by Poe, I don't think it would\nhave been written by Poe. Can't quite say why. I can see Poe writing 'The\nMusic of Erich Zann', or any of the stories that revolve around corpses,\nbut for some reason not this one.\n\n\nOn 30 June 2014 16:47, Fred Kiesche wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "If it's Wolfean, then Wolfe is Lovecraftian and--more to the\ncore--Poesian, as this was definitely one of Eich-Pee-El's pieces most\ninspired by E.A. Poe.\n\n\nOn Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Ant?nio Marques \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": " Hi.\nFor some reason, I'd never read this short piece. Now I'm trying to\nfill the blanks in some authors, I've come across it:\n\nhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outsider_(short_story)\nhttp://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/o.aspx\n\nAnd you know what? The language rings very Wolfean. At first sight,\nit's a lame gothic tale. And there's really nothing hidden below that. But\nit can also be a lot of things if you want to read them into it.\nWhat I find interesting is that not only it could have been written by\nSeverian, up to the last word, some imagery is very evocative. And then the\nwords themselves. I'd have a very hard time believing the corpses that\n*strewed* Severian's battlefield came from anywhere else, even if the image\nis different, but what got me wondering was if, with such gleaning going\non, the name 'Outsider' has got some connection with this story too. Yes,\nat first sight there's no relationship to be found.\nI couldn't find any discussion of this story in connection to Wolfe -\nafter all, why should there be?. Do you know of any? All I could find were\nanalyses of 'An Evil Guest', which I have yet to read.\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] } ] }