# The outsider (Lovecraft) *The Urth list — 5 messages, 3 voices, 30 Jun 2014* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### António Marques *30 Jun 2014, 15:43* Hi. For some reason, I'd never read this short piece. Now I'm trying to fill the blanks in some authors, I've come across it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outsider_(short_story) http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/o.aspx And you know what? The language rings very Wolfean. At first sight, it's a lame gothic tale. And there's really nothing hidden below that. But it can also be a lot of things if you want to read them into it. What I find interesting is that not only it could have been written by Severian, up to the last word, some imagery is very evocative. And then the words themselves. I'd have a very hard time believing the corpses that *strewed* Severian's battlefield came from anywhere else, even if the image is different, but what got me wondering was if, with such gleaning going on, the name 'Outsider' has got some connection with this story too. Yes, at first sight there's no relationship to be found. I couldn't find any discussion of this story in connection to Wolfe - after all, why should there be?. Do you know of any? All I could find were analyses of 'An Evil Guest', which I have yet to read. --- ### Fred Kiesche *30 Jun 2014, 15:47 · in reply to António Marques* If it's Wolfean, then Wolfe is Lovecraftian and--more to the core--Poesian, as this was definitely one of Eich-Pee-El's pieces most inspired by E.A. Poe. > On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Ant?nio Marques wrote: > Hi. > For some reason, I'd never read this short piece. Now I'm trying to fill > the blanks in some authors, I've come across it: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outsider_(short_story) > http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/o.aspx > > And you know what? The language rings very Wolfean. At first sight, it's a > lame gothic tale. And there's really nothing hidden below that. But it can > also be a lot of things if you want to read them into it. > What I find interesting is that not only it could have been written by > Severian, up to the last word, some imagery is very evocative. And then the > words themselves. I'd have a very hard time believing the corpses that > *strewed* Severian's battlefield came from anywhere else, even if the image > is different, but what got me wondering was if, with such gleaning going > on, the name 'Outsider' has got some connection with this story too. Yes, > at first sight there's no relationship to be found. > I couldn't find any discussion of this story in connection to Wolfe - > after all, why should there be?. Do you know of any? All I could find were > analyses of 'An Evil Guest', which I have yet to read. > > _______________________________________________ --- ### António Marques *30 Jun 2014, 16:55 · in reply to Fred Kiesche* Yes, of course. My choice of words is due to the fact hat 1) I don't get this Wolfean linguistic ring from the rest of HPL and 2) tho I agree many of the piece's elements are quite inspired by Poe, I don't think it would have been written by Poe. Can't quite say why. I can see Poe writing 'The Music of Erich Zann', or any of the stories that revolve around corpses, but for some reason not this one. > On 30 June 2014 16:47, Fred Kiesche wrote: > If it's Wolfean, then Wolfe is Lovecraftian and--more to the > core--Poesian, as this was definitely one of Eich-Pee-El's pieces most > inspired by E.A. Poe. > > > On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Ant?nio Marques > wrote: >> Hi. >> For some reason, I'd never read this short piece. Now I'm trying to fill >> the blanks in some authors, I've come across it: >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outsider_(short_story) >> http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/o.aspx >> >> And you know what? The language rings very Wolfean. At first sight, it's >> a lame gothic tale. And there's really nothing hidden below that. But it >> can also be a lot of things if you want to read them into it. >> What I find interesting is that not only it could have been written by >> Severian, up to the last word, some imagery is very evocative. And then the >> words themselves. I'd have a very hard time believing the corpses that >> *strewed* Severian's battlefield came from anywhere else, even if the image >> is different, but what got me wondering was if, with such gleaning going >> on, the name 'Outsider' has got some connection with this story too. Yes, >> at first sight there's no relationship to be found. >> I couldn't find any discussion of this story in connection to Wolfe - >> after all, why should there be?. Do you know of any? All I could find were >> analyses of 'An Evil Guest', which I have yet to read. >> >> _______________________________________________ --- ### Fred Kiesche *30 Jun 2014, 17:02 · in reply to António Marques* HPL walked the streets of Paris with Poe. In a dream. > On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 12:55 PM, Ant?nio Marques wrote: > Yes, of course. My choice of words is due to the fact hat 1) I don't get > this Wolfean linguistic ring from the rest of HPL and 2) tho I agree many > of the piece's elements are quite inspired by Poe, I don't think it would > have been written by Poe. Can't quite say why. I can see Poe writing 'The > Music of Erich Zann', or any of the stories that revolve around corpses, > but for some reason not this one. > > > On 30 June 2014 16:47, Fred Kiesche wrote: >> If it's Wolfean, then Wolfe is Lovecraftian and--more to the >> core--Poesian, as this was definitely one of Eich-Pee-El's pieces most >> inspired by E.A. Poe. >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Ant?nio Marques >> wrote: >>> Hi. >>> For some reason, I'd never read this short piece. Now I'm trying to fill >>> the blanks in some authors, I've come across it: >>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outsider_(short_story) >>> http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/o.aspx >>> >>> And you know what? The language rings very Wolfean. At first sight, it's >>> a lame gothic tale. And there's really nothing hidden below that. But it >>> can also be a lot of things if you want to read them into it. >>> What I find interesting is that not only it could have been written by >>> Severian, up to the last word, some imagery is very evocative. And then the >>> words themselves. I'd have a very hard time believing the corpses that >>> *strewed* Severian's battlefield came from anywhere else, even if the image >>> is different, but what got me wondering was if, with such gleaning going >>> on, the name 'Outsider' has got some connection with this story too. Yes, >>> at first sight there's no relationship to be found. >>> I couldn't find any discussion of this story in connection to Wolfe - >>> after all, why should there be?. Do you know of any? All I could find were >>> analyses of 'An Evil Guest', which I have yet to read. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ --- ### Daniel Otto Jack Petersen *30 Jun 2014, 18:39 · in reply to Fred Kiesche* I'm glad you brought this up. I've always thought the most interesting thing about Wolfe's divine Outsider as compared to Lovecraft's Outsider is that both are monsters of sorts: non-canonical, subterranean, tenebrous, subversive. It's part of the devious theological genius of Wolfe that he casts his 'true God' as an outcast, a creature of the night as it were, a monster. I think part of Wolfe's theological impulse is to see the Christian deity anew in a Chestertonian 'upside down' sort of way and this very obscure (but valid, I think) connection to Lovecraft's Outsider is one of the ways he achieves that *'mooreeffoc' * epiphany. -DOJP > On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 6:02 PM, Fred Kiesche > wrote: > HPL walked the streets of Paris with Poe. In a dream. > > > On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 12:55 PM, Ant?nio Marques > wrote: >> Yes, of course. My choice of words is due to the fact hat 1) I don't get >> this Wolfean linguistic ring from the rest of HPL and 2) tho I agree many >> of the piece's elements are quite inspired by Poe, I don't think it would >> have been written by Poe. Can't quite say why. I can see Poe writing 'The >> Music of Erich Zann', or any of the stories that revolve around corpses, >> but for some reason not this one. >> >> >> On 30 June 2014 16:47, Fred Kiesche wrote: >>> If it's Wolfean, then Wolfe is Lovecraftian and--more to the >>> core--Poesian, as this was definitely one of Eich-Pee-El's pieces most >>> inspired by E.A. Poe. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Ant?nio Marques >>> wrote: >>>> Hi. >>>> For some reason, I'd never read this short piece. Now I'm trying to >>>> fill the blanks in some authors, I've come across it: >>>> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outsider_(short_story) >>>> http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/o.aspx >>>> >>>> And you know what? The language rings very Wolfean. At first sight, >>>> it's a lame gothic tale. And there's really nothing hidden below that. But >>>> it can also be a lot of things if you want to read them into it. >>>> What I find interesting is that not only it could have been written by >>>> Severian, up to the last word, some imagery is very evocative. And then the >>>> words themselves. I'd have a very hard time believing the corpses that >>>> *strewed* Severian's battlefield came from anywhere else, even if the image >>>> is different, but what got me wondering was if, with such gleaning going >>>> on, the name 'Outsider' has got some connection with this story too. Yes, >>>> at first sight there's no relationship to be found. >>>> I couldn't find any discussion of this story in connection to Wolfe - >>>> after all, why should there be?. Do you know of any? All I could find were >>>> analyses of 'An Evil Guest', which I have yet to read. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ ---