{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6573", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 6573, "subject": "Fuligin?", "messages": 20, "voices": 8, "first": "2014-07-15T13:05:45+00:00", "last": "2014-07-17T03:09:43+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Ryan Buller", "address": "hoofandhide at gmail.com" }, "date": "2014-07-15T13:05:45+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin?", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thought this was fun.\nGood to know they have the material needed to start a Torturer's Guild. :)\n\nhttp://io9.com/meet-vantablack-the-worlds-darkest-material-1605123430" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Antonin Scriabin", "address": "kierkegaurdian at gmail.com" }, "date": "2014-07-15T13:06:43+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "What is the liquid in Terminus Est? That should be next." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Jul 15, 2014 9:05 AM, \"Ryan Buller\" wrote:\nThought this was fun.\nGood to know they have the material needed to start a Torturer's Guild. :)\n\nhttp://io9.com/meet-vantablack-the-worlds-darkest-material-1605123430\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<53B86139004A0FE9@smtpout10.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk>", "from": { "name": "Mo Holkar", "address": "mo at holkar.net" }, "date": "2014-07-15T14:01:43+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Just mercury, isn't it?\n\nMo" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 14:06 15/07/2014, Antonin wrote:\nWhat is the liquid in Terminus Est? That should be next." } ] }, { "message_id": "<53C54DC5.1040400@clueland.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeffery Wilson clueland.com", "address": "jwilson at clueland.com" }, "date": "2014-07-15T15:50:29+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin?", "in_reply_to": "<53B86139004A0FE9@smtpout10.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 7/15/2014 9:01 AM, Mo Holkar wrote:\nJust mercury, isn't it?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The translator G.W. transcribes it as \"hydrargyrum\", but it could be \nsomething more exotic." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - < jwilson at clueland.com >\nA&M Texarkana Computational Intelligence Lab\n< http://www.tamut.edu/cil >" } ] }, { "message_id": "<53C6800F.8050205@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2014-07-16T13:37:19+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin?", "in_reply_to": "<53C54DC5.1040400@clueland.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\"Spinning liquid silver\"?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 7/15/2014 11:50 AM, Jeffery Wilson clueland.com wrote:\nOn 7/15/2014 9:01 AM, Mo Holkar wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Just mercury, isn't it?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The translator G.W. transcribes it as \"hydrargyrum\", but it could be\nsomething more exotic." } ] }, { "message_id": "<53B866BA00C3D4E1@rgout01.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk>", "from": { "name": "Mo Holkar", "address": "mo at holkar.net" }, "date": "2014-07-16T13:59:39+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin?", "in_reply_to": "<53C6800F.8050205@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hydrargyrum is the Latinized Greek name for mercury, hence its \nchemical symbol Hg. The 'gyr' is just part of 'argyros', Greek for silver.\n\nMy understanding is that everything described about this liquid in \nthe text is satisfied by mercury, so there seems no reason to \nconsider it to be anything different.\n\nIt's not the same (it seems to me) as where he calls a riding beast \nby the name of a prehistoric animal and so we must understand it's \nnot that animal and nor is it a horse. Hydrargyrum is not an ancient \nsubstance predecessor to mercury; it's an archaic name for precisely \ncontemporary mercury.\n\nMo" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 14:37 16/07/2014, you wrote:\n\"Spinning liquid silver\"?\n\nOn 7/15/2014 11:50 AM, Jeffery Wilson clueland.com wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On 7/15/2014 9:01 AM, Mo Holkar wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Just mercury, isn't it?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "The translator G.W. transcribes it as \"hydrargyrum\", but it could be\nsomething more exotic." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1405520709.80965.YahooMailNeo@web120304.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "DAVID STOCKHOFF", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2014-07-16T14:25:09+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin?", "in_reply_to": "<53B866BA00C3D4E1@rgout01.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes, this is definitely a case of deploying an exotic-sounding but technically precise term for an ordinary substance." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wednesday, July 16, 2014 9:59 AM, Mo Holkar wrote:\n\n\nHydrargyrum is the Latinized Greek name for mercury, hence its \nchemical symbol Hg. The 'gyr' is just part of 'argyros', Greek for silver.\n\nMy understanding is that everything described about this liquid in \nthe text is satisfied by mercury, so there seems no reason to \nconsider it to be anything different.\n\nIt's not the same (it seems to me) as where he calls a riding beast \nby the name of a prehistoric animal and so we must understand it's \nnot that animal and nor is it a horse. Hydrargyrum is not an ancient \nsubstance predecessor to mercury; it's an archaic name for precisely \ncontemporary mercury.\n\nMo\n\n\n\n\n\nAt 14:37 16/07/2014, you wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "\"Spinning liquid silver\"?\n\nOn 7/15/2014 11:50 AM, Jeffery Wilson clueland.com wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "On 7/15/2014 9:01 AM, Mo Holkar wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "Just mercury, isn't it?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "The translator G.W. transcribes it as \"hydrargyrum\", but it could be\nsomething more exotic." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<53C69E85.5030703@clueland.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeffery Wilson clueland.com", "address": "jwilson at clueland.com" }, "date": "2014-07-16T15:47:17+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin?", "in_reply_to": "<53B866BA00C3D4E1@rgout01.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 7/16/2014 8:59 AM, Mo Holkar wrote:\nHydrargyrum is the Latinized Greek name for mercury, hence its chemical\nsymbol Hg. The 'gyr' is just part of 'argyros', Greek for silver.\n\nMy understanding is that everything described about this liquid in the\ntext is satisfied by mercury, so there seems no reason to consider it to\nbe anything different.\n\nIt's not the same (it seems to me) as where he calls a riding beast by\nthe name of a prehistoric animal and so we must understand it's not that\nanimal and nor is it a horse. Hydrargyrum is not an ancient substance\npredecessor to mercury; it's an archaic name for precisely contemporary\nmercury." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "G.W. says, \"Latin is once or twice employed to indicate that \ninscriptions and the like are in a language Severian appears to consider \nobsolete. What the actual language may have been, I cannot say.\"\n\nIn 3.37, it is writ, \"Whatever had occurred, the mace was gone, and I \nheld in my hands only the sword's hilt, from which protruded less than a \ncubit of shattered metal. The hydrargyrum that had labored so long in \nthe darkness there ran from it now in silver tears.\"\n\nIf this substance is mercury, as known to the ancient Greeks and \npopularized in current science and left in dangerous quantities from the \nmid 20th century peak of its production and use, and suitable for \nGalilean vacuums, mercury switches, and driving hatters mad, it seems \nodd that there would be no current word for it encountered by Severian." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - < jwilson at clueland.com >\nA&M Texarkana Computational Intelligence Lab\n< http://www.tamut.edu/cil >" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1405526209.20684.YahooMailNeo@web120303.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "DAVID STOCKHOFF", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2014-07-16T15:56:49+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin?", "in_reply_to": "<53C69E85.5030703@clueland.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Perhaps, but you certainly wouldn't expect him to call it \"mercury.\" Way too many conflicting associations there. And I doubt there would be a common term for it anyway---who would have it sitting around the house?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wednesday, July 16, 2014 11:47 AM, Jeffery Wilson clueland.com wrote:\n\n\nOn 7/16/2014 8:59 AM, Mo Holkar wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Hydrargyrum is the Latinized Greek name for mercury, hence its chemical\nsymbol Hg. The 'gyr' is just part of 'argyros', Greek for silver.\n\nMy understanding is that everything described about this liquid in the\ntext is satisfied by mercury, so there seems no reason to consider it to\nbe anything different.\n\nIt's not the same (it seems to me) as where he calls a riding beast by\nthe name of a prehistoric animal and so we must understand it's not that\nanimal and nor is it a horse. Hydrargyrum is not an ancient substance\npredecessor to mercury; it's an archaic name for precisely contemporary\nmercury." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "G.W. says, \"Latin is once or twice employed to indicate that \ninscriptions and the like are in a language Severian appears to consider \nobsolete. What the actual language may have been, I cannot say.\"\n\nIn 3.37, it is writ, \"Whatever had occurred, the mace was gone, and I \nheld in my hands only the sword's hilt, from which protruded less than a \ncubit of shattered metal. The hydrargyrum that had labored so long in \nthe darkness there ran from it now in silver tears.\"\n\nIf this substance is mercury, as known to the ancient Greeks and \npopularized in current science and left in dangerous quantities from the \nmid 20th century peak of its production and use, and suitable for \nGalilean vacuums, mercury switches, and driving hatters mad, it seems \nodd that there would be no current word for it encountered by Severian.\n\n\n-- \nJeff Wilson - < jwilson at clueland.com >\nA&M Texarkana Computational Intelligence Lab\n< http://www.tamut.edu/cil >\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<53C6A789.2050703@bindweed.com>", "from": { "name": "Gerry Quinn", "address": "gerry at bindweed.com" }, "date": "2014-07-16T16:25:45+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin?", "in_reply_to": "<1405526209.20684.YahooMailNeo@web120303.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 16/07/2014 16:56, DAVID STOCKHOFF wrote:\nPerhaps, but you certainly wouldn't expect him to call it \"mercury.\" \nWay too many conflicting associations there. And I doubt there would \nbe a common term for it anyway---who would have it sitting around the \nhouse" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'd say he might have considered 'quicksilver' but 'hydrargyrum' sounds \nbetter.\n\n- Gerry Quinn" } ] }, { "message_id": "<53C6A792.2020707@clueland.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeffery Wilson clueland.com", "address": "jwilson at clueland.com" }, "date": "2014-07-16T16:25:54+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin?", "in_reply_to": "<1405526209.20684.YahooMailNeo@web120303.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 7/16/2014 10:56 AM, DAVID STOCKHOFF wrote:\nPerhaps, but you certainly wouldn't expect him to call it \"mercury.\" Way\ntoo many conflicting associations there." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Whatever word the Commonwealth's tongue had for it, if that was used and \nit was apparent from context that it was something we know today, \nmercury, G.W. would've writ the word we use, \"mercury\", like he does \nwith all the other words where that is the case." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "And I doubt there would be a\ncommon term for it anyway---who would have it sitting around the house?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "People whose homes contain Emerald Tablets and homunculi, and other 20th \ncentury electrical conveniences like electric eyes and metal detectors, \nor whose homes are rocketships crammed full of eternally repaired \nancient gear that might include mercury switches, mercury balances, \nmercury bearings, et cetera. Autarch Severian is both, and then some." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - < jwilson at clueland.com >\nA&M Texarkana Computational Intelligence Lab\n< http://www.tamut.edu/cil >" } ] }, { "message_id": "<53C6B822.4010706@bindweed.com>", "from": { "name": "Gerry Quinn", "address": "gerry at bindweed.com" }, "date": "2014-07-16T17:36:34+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin?", "in_reply_to": "<53C6A792.2020707@clueland.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 16/07/2014 17:25, Jeffery Wilson clueland.com wrote:\nOn 7/16/2014 10:56 AM, DAVID STOCKHOFF wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "And I doubt there would be a\ncommon term for it anyway---who would have it sitting around the house?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "People whose homes contain Emerald Tablets and homunculi, and other \n20th century electrical conveniences like electric eyes and metal \ndetectors, or whose homes are rocketships crammed full of eternally \nrepaired ancient gear that might include mercury switches, mercury \nbalances, mercury bearings, et cetera. Autarch Severian is both, and \nthen some." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "For the educated classes in the Commonwealth, the substance would be \nreasonably familiar, Probably not so much for the common people, But I \ndon't see any issue with the use of a new technical name for it. Mars \nand Venus have new names, why not mercury?\n\nAlso, if Severian is familiar with mercury, shouldn't he explain to us \nwhy hydrargyrum is superior for weighting swords?\n\nIf it's not different, what does it matter if it is something else? \nSure, some future EPA may have banned the use of mercury, but if so it's \nbeen replaced by a new material that to all intents and purposes is \nexactly the same!\n\n- Gerry Quinn" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2014-07-16T18:33:44+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin?", "in_reply_to": "<53C6A792.2020707@clueland.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I have to thematically disagree with that assessment, Jeffery. The\nastronaut is called a knight, the Latin is mistranslated ... New things get\nold names, but sometimes old things get new or even older names. Could\nvery easily be Mercury. Would the loft of his blade be greatly affected by\ntemperatures? Warm or cold weather blade?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wednesday, July 16, 2014, Jeffery Wilson clueland.com <\njwilson at clueland.com> wrote:\nOn 7/16/2014 10:56 AM, DAVID STOCKHOFF wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Perhaps, but you certainly wouldn't expect him to call it \"mercury.\" Way\ntoo many conflicting associations there." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Whatever word the Commonwealth's tongue had for it, if that was used and\nit was apparent from context that it was something we know today, mercury,\nG.W. would've writ the word we use, \"mercury\", like he does with all the\nother words where that is the case." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "And I doubt there would be a" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "common term for it anyway---who would have it sitting around the house?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "People whose homes contain Emerald Tablets and homunculi, and other 20th\ncentury electrical conveniences like electric eyes and metal detectors, or\nwhose homes are rocketships crammed full of eternally repaired ancient gear\nthat might include mercury switches, mercury balances, mercury bearings, et\ncetera. Autarch Severian is both, and then some.\n\n\n--\nJeff Wilson - < jwilson at clueland.com >\nA&M Texarkana Computational Intelligence Lab\n< http://www.tamut.edu/cil >\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1405540572.49894.YahooMailNeo@web120301.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "DAVID STOCKHOFF", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2014-07-16T19:56:12+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Mercury has a very low freezing point and a very high boiling point. Hard to imagine temperature being a problem!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wednesday, July 16, 2014 2:34 PM, Marc Aramini wrote:\n\n\n\nI have to thematically disagree with that assessment, Jeffery. “The astronaut is called a knight, the Latin is mistranslated ... New things get old names, but sometimes old things get new or even older names. ?Could very easily be Mercury. ?Would the loft of his blade be greatly affected by temperatures” “Warm or cold weather blade”\n\n\nOn Wednesday, July 16, 2014, Jeffery Wilson clueland.com wrote:\n\nOn 7/16/2014 10:56 AM, DAVID STOCKHOFF wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Perhaps, but you certainly wouldn't expect him to call it \"mercury.\" Way\ntoo many conflicting associations there." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Whatever word the Commonwealth's tongue had for it, if that was used and it was apparent from context that it was something we know today, mercury, G.W. would've writ the word we use, \"mercury\", like he does with all the other words where that is the case." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "And I doubt there would be a" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "common term for it anyway---who would have it sitting around the house?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "People whose homes contain Emerald Tablets and homunculi, and other 20th century electrical conveniences like electric eyes and metal detectors, or whose homes are rocketships crammed full of eternally repaired ancient gear that might include mercury switches, mercury balances, mercury bearings, et cetera. ?Autarch Severian is both, and then some.\n\n\n-- \nJeff Wilson - < jwilson at clueland.com >\nA&M Texarkana Computational Intelligence Lab\n< http://www.tamut.edu/cil" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2014-07-16T22:13:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin?", "in_reply_to": "<1405540572.49894.YahooMailNeo@web120301.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Would temp change the balance though? If mercury expanded or contracted." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wednesday, July 16, 2014, DAVID STOCKHOFF wrote:\nMercury has a very low freezing point and a very high boiling point. Hard\nto imagine temperature being a problem!\n\n\n On Wednesday, July 16, 2014 2:34 PM, Marc Aramini > wrote:\n\n\n\n\nI have to thematically disagree with that assessment, Jeffery. The\nastronaut is called a knight, the Latin is mistranslated ... New things get\nold names, but sometimes old things get new or even older names. Could\nvery easily be Mercury. Would the loft of his blade be greatly affected by\ntemperatures? Warm or cold weather blade?\n\nOn Wednesday, July 16, 2014, Jeffery Wilson clueland.com <\njwilson at clueland.com\n> wrote:\n\nOn 7/16/2014 10:56 AM, DAVID STOCKHOFF wrote:\n\nPerhaps, but you certainly wouldn't expect him to call it \"mercury.\" Way\ntoo many conflicting associations there.\n\n\nWhatever word the Commonwealth's tongue had for it, if that was used and\nit was apparent from context that it was something we know today, mercury,\nG.W. would've writ the word we use, \"mercury\", like he does with all the\nother words where that is the case." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "And I doubt there would be a" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "common term for it anyway---who would have it sitting around the house?\n\n\nPeople whose homes contain Emerald Tablets and homunculi, and other 20th\ncentury electrical conveniences like electric eyes and metal detectors, or\nwhose homes are rocketships crammed full of eternally repaired ancient gear\nthat might include mercury switches, mercury balances, mercury bearings, et\ncetera. Autarch Severian is both, and then some.\n\n\n--\nJeff Wilson - < jwilson at clueland.com >\nA&M Texarkana Computational Intelligence Lab\n< http://www.tamut.edu/cil" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<53C707E9.4050900@bindweed.com>", "from": { "name": "Gerry Quinn", "address": "gerry at bindweed.com" }, "date": "2014-07-16T23:16:57+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 16/07/2014 23:13, Marc Aramini wrote:\nWould temp change the balance though? If mercury expanded or contracted." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Not really, given that it has space to run around inside. The thermal \nexpansion would reduce the space available to it only slightly.\n\nIn practice, I don't believe there would be any real benefit to making a \nsword this way anyway. It sounds good (moving mercury adding to the \nforce of the downstroke) but this would really only work if the sword \nstarted almost horizontal - and if it did, it's hard to see how it would \naccelerate enough to behead someone. But if the sword rises before it \nfalls, the mercury has to be lifted too, so it makes no net addition to \nthe force of the blow. A solid sword, permanently weighted at the end, \nwould work just as well and probably better.\n\n- Gerry Quinn" } ] }, { "message_id": "<53C70D42.4030903@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2014-07-16T23:39:46+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin?", "in_reply_to": "<53C707E9.4050900@bindweed.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It's probably impractical. On the other hand, its \"gimcrackery\"\nemphasizes the theatrical nature of the the role of executioner. It\nmight even be intended as much to frighten thieves and the gullible (as\nit did once) as to aid in the swing.\n\nBesides, when you first lift the sword from the horizontal, the mercury\nwould rush toward the hilt, bringing its center of gravity closer to the\nbody. I think the real benefit may be simply to make lifting it easier.\nIt could also assist in accuracy on the downswing, a notorious problem\nfor executioners. Think of it as a crude gyroscope.\n\nBecause Severian doesn't seem to be bothered by its effects when using\nthe sword in combat (for which is certainly was not intended), they may\nbe slight. But it could speed the blade just enough to make a stroke\nlook decisive, which as Severian suggests plays to the psychological\naspects of the job, i.e., the problem of the executioner not being up to\nthe job.\n\nIt's actually amazing that no one has tried to make one, at least that I\nhave heard of. I wonder what technical challenges would be involved." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 7/16/2014 7:16 PM, Gerry Quinn wrote:\n\nOn 16/07/2014 23:13, Marc Aramini wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Would temp change the balance though? If mercury expanded or contracted." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Not really, given that it has space to run around inside. The thermal\nexpansion would reduce the space available to it only slightly.\n\nIn practice, I don't believe there would be any real benefit to making\na sword this way anyway. It sounds good (moving mercury adding to the\nforce of the downstroke) but this would really only work if the sword\nstarted almost horizontal - and if it did, it's hard to see how it\nwould accelerate enough to behead someone. But if the sword rises\nbefore it falls, the mercury has to be lifted too, so it makes no net\naddition to the force of the blow. A solid sword, permanently\nweighted at the end, would work just as well and probably better.\n\n- Gerry Quinn\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<53C734B5.7020101@clueland.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeffery Wilson clueland.com", "address": "jwilson at clueland.com" }, "date": "2014-07-17T02:28:05+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin?", "in_reply_to": "<1405540572.49894.YahooMailNeo@web120301.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 7/16/2014 2:56 PM, DAVID STOCKHOFF wrote:\nMercury has a very low freezing point and a very high boiling point.\nHard to imagine temperature being a problem!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes, which is one reason I didn't suggest Germanium, unless the chamber \nis also a perfect thermal insulator." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - < jwilson at clueland.com >\nA&M Texarkana Computational Intelligence Lab\n< http://www.tamut.edu/cil >" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "David Duffy", "address": "david.duffy at qimr.edu.au" }, "date": "2014-07-17T02:55:11+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin?", "in_reply_to": "<53C70D42.4030903@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thu, 17 Jul 2014, David Stockhoff wrote:\nIt's actually amazing that no one has tried to make one, at least that I\nhave heard of. I wonder what technical challenges would be involved." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?102296-Sword-with-sliding-weight\n\n\"...and from his huge sword, which had a remarkable accessory in the shape \nof an iron ball that slid along the back of the blade to give an \nadditional weight to every cut\"" } ] }, { "message_id": "<53C73E77.3090208@clueland.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeffery Wilson clueland.com", "address": "jwilson at clueland.com" }, "date": "2014-07-17T03:09:43+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fuligin?", "in_reply_to": "<53C70D42.4030903@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 7/16/2014 6:39 PM, David Stockhoff wrote:\nIt's probably impractical. On the other hand, its \"gimcrackery\"\nemphasizes the theatrical nature of the the role of executioner. It\nmight even be intended as much to frighten thieves and the gullible (as\nit did once) as to aid in the swing.\n\nBesides, when you first lift the sword from the horizontal, the mercury\nwould rush toward the hilt, bringing its center of gravity closer to the\nbody. I think the real benefit may be simply to make lifting it easier.\nIt could also assist in accuracy on the downswing, a notorious problem\nfor executioners." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This can work, and it will also help the horizontal stroke with a wide \nswing against the greater movement arm with the liquid at the tip. But I \ndon't see how it could be less than difficult to do the double \nthigh-breaker at Saltus." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - < jwilson at clueland.com >\nA&M Texarkana Computational Intelligence Lab\n< http://www.tamut.edu/cil >" } ] } ] }