{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6627", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 6627, "subject": "OT: R.A. Lafferty GA links", "messages": 7, "voices": 7, "first": "2014-08-18T01:39:02+00:00", "last": "2014-09-14T18:00:07+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Gwern Branwen", "address": "gwern at gwern.net" }, "date": "2014-08-18T01:39:02+00:00", "subject": "(urth) OT: R.A. Lafferty GA links", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "- http://antsofgodarequeerfish.blogspot.com/2014/08/lafferty-news-thats-right-news.html\n- http://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2014/aug/13/ra-lafferty-secret-sci-fi-genius-poised-for-comeback\n\"RA Lafferty — the secret sci-fi genius more than ready for a\ncomeback: A reissue of the US science fiction writer RA Lafferty's\nstories sold out rapidly this year, and his fans, including Neil\nGaiman, hope to see his novels reprinted\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "There's something of the Irish comic tradition in there, the\nabsurdity and surreality of Flann O'Brien, author of The Third\nPoliceman. \"I agree,\" says the author Neil Gaiman. \"And there's\nkinship with the American tall tale tradition, and with GK Chesterton." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "But they are all only cousins. There's nothing close to Lafferty —\nnobody with the gravitas about things that were light, and the\nantigravitas about important heavy things.\"...Gaiman has been a\nLafferty enthusiast since he was nine, and discovered the writers'\nwork in various anthologies. He attempted a story in Lafferty style —\nSunbird, in his collection Fragile Things — which he said proved to\nhim \"mostly how much harder\" the style was than it looked. \"What drew\nme to his work? The narrative voice, I think,\" says Gaiman. \"The way\nhe'd construct a story — unlike the way anyone else did it. The\npeculiar rightness of his worldview, and the topsy-turvy nature of it.\nThe sentences.\" A few years after his initial discovery, Gaiman struck\nup a correspondence with Lafferty. He remembers: \"I sent him a\nLafferty pastiche I had written, and he was not rude about it. But he\nwas encouraging, and informative, and took me very seriously, which is\ngood, because I was about 20 and took myself very seriously as well.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "...\"Lafferty himself said his short stories were better, but his\nnovels had more to say,\" says Andrew Ferguson. \"The stories are always\nworth going back to, but it's the novels on which his long-term\nliterary reputation will rest.\"Ferguson is a PhD candidate at the\nUniversity of Virginia, and along with Gaiman's championing he's one\nof the reasons Lafferty is perhaps being pulled back from the brink of\ntotal obscurity — he's writing a biography of the author for the\nUniversity of Illinois Modern Masters of Science Fiction series, and\nwill chair a panel on Lafferty on 14 August at Loncon, the World\nScience Fiction Convention, being held at London's Docklands. Ferguson\nsays: \"It may be a bit of a cliche, but there's really nothing else\nout there comparable to him. He's one of the distinctive prose\nstylists in the genre: you can tell a Lafferty story within a\nsentence. He's a very funny writer, in a field that has often taken\nitself way too seriously.\" Curiously, though largely out of print in\nthe west, the writer is big in Japan, says Ferguson, where \"Lafferty\nhas remained popular for decades \".\n\n[This surprises me; I read a lot of Japanese stuff but I've\nnever seen R.A. Lafferty come up.]\n\n...Ferguson says: \"I'm hoping the Centipede Press editions get\nlicensed for a more affordable edition eventually. I think there'd\ndefinitely be readers for a big best of Lafferty retrospective.\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That's something Gaiman would like to see, too : \"I'd love to see a\nComplete Lafferty in print. I used to give people his short story\ncollection Nine Hundred Grandmothers, until one day it was out of\nprint and gone.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "It's hard to say why, if Lafferty was so brilliant — which he\nwas — he's virtually unknown. David Langford, the noted\nscience-fiction commentator, wrote in his regular SF news bulletin\nAnsible, after Lafferty's death in March 2002: \"The World Fantasy\nConvention belatedly did the decent thing and honoured RA Lafferty\nwith its lifetime achievement award in 1990. But the SF world never\nhonoured him enough. Major publishers abandoned him in the mid-80s:" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Lafferty was just too dementedly brilliant for them.\"" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "gwern\nhttp://www.gwern.net" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Auspex Rex", "address": "auspexrex at icloud.com" }, "date": "2014-09-14T07:03:49+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The Third Policeman and The Land Across", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I’d never heard of Flann O?Brien or The Third Policeman, but reading the synopsis on wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Policeman) made me think again about The Land Across. Someone else pointed out the connection to The Third Man already: Grafton mentions Hotel Sacher. Lots of missing, presumed-dead, actually dead, ghost third persons? and TLA’s third border-guard who is sometimes invisible, sometimes not, and looks like the leader of the country, and also looks like Grafton’s father...\n\nAnyone familiar with The Third Policeman and The Land Across have thoughts on how the former might help us interpret the latter?\n\n-Jeff" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Aug 17, 2014, at 9:39 PM, Gwern Branwen wrote:\n- http://antsofgodarequeerfish.blogspot.com/2014/08/lafferty-news-thats-right-news.html\n- http://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2014/aug/13/ra-lafferty-secret-sci-fi-genius-poised-for-comeback\n\"RA Lafferty — the secret sci-fi genius more than ready for a\ncomeback: A reissue of the US science fiction writer RA Lafferty's\nstories sold out rapidly this year, and his fans, including Neil\nGaiman, hope to see his novels reprinted\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "There's something of the Irish comic tradition in there, the\nabsurdity and surreality of Flann O'Brien, author of The Third\nPoliceman. \"I agree,\" says the author Neil Gaiman." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Antonin Scriabin", "address": "kierkegaurdian at gmail.com" }, "date": "2014-09-14T13:17:41+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The Third Policeman and The Land Across", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I haven't read The Third Policeman, but have read At Swim-Two-Birds and\ncan vouch for the fact that O'Brien is a genius. Lots of meta fictional\nhijinks." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sep 14, 2014 3:04 AM, \"Auspex Rex\" wrote:\nI’d never heard of Flann O?Brien or The Third Policeman, but reading the\nsynopsis on wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Policeman)\nmade me think again about The Land Across. Someone else pointed out the\nconnection to The Third Man already: Grafton mentions Hotel Sacher. Lots of\nmissing, presumed-dead, actually dead, ghost third persons? and TLA’s third\nborder-guard who is sometimes invisible, sometimes not, and looks like the\nleader of the country, and also looks like Grafton’s father...\n\nAnyone familiar with The Third Policeman and The Land Across have thoughts\non how the former might help us interpret the latter?\n\n-Jeff\n\nOn Aug 17, 2014, at 9:39 PM, Gwern Branwen wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "-\nhttp://antsofgodarequeerfish.blogspot.com/2014/08/lafferty-news-thats-right-news.html\n-\nhttp://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2014/aug/13/ra-lafferty-secret-sci-fi-genius-poised-for-comeback\n\"RA Lafferty — the secret sci-fi genius more than ready for a\ncomeback: A reissue of the US science fiction writer RA Lafferty's\nstories sold out rapidly this year, and his fans, including Neil\nGaiman, hope to see his novels reprinted\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "There's something of the Irish comic tradition in there, the\nabsurdity and surreality of Flann O'Brien, author of The Third\nPoliceman. \"I agree,\" says the author Neil Gaiman." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<5DEE6E0F-8418-4637-8790-BBC444A1BF20@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "entonio at gmail.com", "address": "entonio at gmail.com" }, "date": "2014-09-14T14:59:17+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The Third Policeman and The Land Across", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Anyone who hasn't read Flann O' Brien / Brian O' Nolan / Myles, then do. Besides great, it's hysterical.\n\nNo dia 14/09/2014, ?s 14:17, Antonin Scriabin escreveu:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I haven't read The Third Policeman, but have read At Swim-Two-Birds and can vouch for the fact that O'Brien is a genius. Lots of meta fictional hijinks.\n\nOn Sep 14, 2014 3:04 AM, \"Auspex Rex\" wrote:\nI’d never heard of Flann O?Brien or The Third Policeman, but reading the synopsis on wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Policeman) made me think again about The Land Across. Someone else pointed out the connection to The Third Man already: Grafton mentions Hotel Sacher. Lots of missing, presumed-dead, actually dead, ghost third persons? and TLA’s third border-guard who is sometimes invisible, sometimes not, and looks like the leader of the country, and also looks like Grafton’s father...\n\nAnyone familiar with The Third Policeman and The Land Across have thoughts on how the former might help us interpret the latter?\n\n-Jeff\n\nOn Aug 17, 2014, at 9:39 PM, Gwern Branwen wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "- http://antsofgodarequeerfish.blogspot.com/2014/08/lafferty-news-thats-right-news.html\n- http://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2014/aug/13/ra-lafferty-secret-sci-fi-genius-poised-for-comeback\n\"RA Lafferty — the secret sci-fi genius more than ready for a\ncomeback: A reissue of the US science fiction writer RA Lafferty's\nstories sold out rapidly this year, and his fans, including Neil\nGaiman, hope to see his novels reprinted\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "There's something of the Irish comic tradition in there, the\nabsurdity and surreality of Flann O'Brien, author of The Third\nPoliceman. \"I agree,\" says the author Neil Gaiman." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2014-09-14T16:34:11+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The Third Policeman and The Land Across", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I read it years and years ago ... didn't really remind me of Wolfe at\nall. Definitely reminded me of a bit of Beckett's Molloy trilogy/Waiting\nfor Godot and RA Lafferty (though much closer is At Swim Two Bird's, with\nits very similar parallels to the Lafferty canon in The Devil is Dead, but\nit could just be the \"Irishness\" of it all.) Maybe I will read it again\nsome day. I am thinking there are parts of Lanark that resonate with The\nThird Policeman as well. There is this sense of phantasmagoric mistaken\nidentity and a blurring between the living and the dead held forever in a\nholding pattern that all those works seem to have in common.\n\nI think Wolfe and Lafferty are actually very different, with Wolfe being\nmore rigorously logical in structure and Lafferty's stuff often not\nadhering to strict ordering - more like dream logic." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 12:03 AM, Auspex Rex wrote:\nI’d never heard of Flann O?Brien or The Third Policeman, but reading the\nsynopsis on wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Policeman)\nmade me think again about The Land Across. Someone else pointed out the\nconnection to The Third Man already: Grafton mentions Hotel Sacher. Lots of\nmissing, presumed-dead, actually dead, ghost third persons? and TLA’s third\nborder-guard who is sometimes invisible, sometimes not, and looks like the\nleader of the country, and also looks like Grafton’s father...\n\nAnyone familiar with The Third Policeman and The Land Across have thoughts\non how the former might help us interpret the latter?\n\n-Jeff\n\nOn Aug 17, 2014, at 9:39 PM, Gwern Branwen wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "-\nhttp://antsofgodarequeerfish.blogspot.com/2014/08/lafferty-news-thats-right-news.html\n-\nhttp://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2014/aug/13/ra-lafferty-secret-sci-fi-genius-poised-for-comeback\n\"RA Lafferty — the secret sci-fi genius more than ready for a\ncomeback: A reissue of the US science fiction writer RA Lafferty's\nstories sold out rapidly this year, and his fans, including Neil\nGaiman, hope to see his novels reprinted\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "There's something of the Irish comic tradition in there, the\nabsurdity and surreality of Flann O'Brien, author of The Third\nPoliceman. \"I agree,\" says the author Neil Gaiman." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<5415D4FE.5030105@bindweed.com>", "from": { "name": "Gerry Quinn", "address": "gerry at bindweed.com" }, "date": "2014-09-14T17:48:46+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The Third Policeman and The Land Across", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 14/09/2014 17:34, Marc Aramini wrote:\nI read it years and years ago ... didn't really remind me of Wolfe at \nall. Definitely reminded me of a bit of Beckett's Molloy \ntrilogy/Waiting for Godot and RA Lafferty (though much closer is At \nSwim Two Bird's, with its very similar parallels to the Lafferty \ncanon in The Devil is Dead, but it could just be the \"Irishness\" of it \nall.) Maybe I will read it again some day. I am thinking there are \nparts of Lanark that resonate with The Third Policeman as well. There \nis this sense of phantasmagoric mistaken identity and a blurring \nbetween the living and the dead held forever in a holding pattern that \nall those works seem to have in common." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I always reckoned Martin Amis's _Other People_ was to some degree \nderivative of _The Third Policeman_.\n\n- Gerry Quinn" } ] }, { "message_id": "<5415D7A7.4080102@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2014-09-14T18:00:07+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The Third Policeman and The Land Across", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Haven't read Land Across yet (I know, I know), but IIRC, T3P has a \n(spoiler alert) ghost narrator. And the dead behave in a Beckett-like \nmanner, unable to perceive their condition or do anything about it.\n\nI can very easily see Wolfe doing something with that." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 9/14/2014 3:03 AM, Auspex Rex wrote:\nI’d never heard of Flann O?Brien or The Third Policeman, but reading the synopsis on wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Policeman) made me think again about The Land Across. Someone else pointed out the connection to The Third Man already: Grafton mentions Hotel Sacher. Lots of missing, presumed-dead, actually dead, ghost third persons? and TLA’s third border-guard who is sometimes invisible, sometimes not, and looks like the leader of the country, and also looks like Grafton’s father...\n\nAnyone familiar with The Third Policeman and The Land Across have thoughts on how the former might help us interpret the latter?\n\n-Jeff\n\nOn Aug 17, 2014, at 9:39 PM, Gwern Branwen wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "- http://antsofgodarequeerfish.blogspot.com/2014/08/lafferty-news-thats-right-news.html\n- http://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2014/aug/13/ra-lafferty-secret-sci-fi-genius-poised-for-comeback\n\"RA Lafferty — the secret sci-fi genius more than ready for a\ncomeback: A reissue of the US science fiction writer RA Lafferty's\nstories sold out rapidly this year, and his fans, including Neil\nGaiman, hope to see his novels reprinted\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "There's something of the Irish comic tradition in there, the\nabsurdity and surreality of Flann O'Brien, author of The Third\nPoliceman. \"I agree,\" says the author Neil Gaiman." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "_______________________________________________" } ] } ] }