{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6649", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 6649, "subject": "Polish translation of Long Sun.", "messages": 8, "voices": 5, "first": "2014-08-27T14:59:10+00:00", "last": "2014-08-27T19:41:51+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Piotr Szczęsny", "address": "neternalz at gmail.com" }, "date": "2014-08-27T14:59:10+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Polish translation of Long Sun.", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hello people of Urth,\nSome time ago I tried to read the Long Sun in polish, but on first pages I\nsaw that the translator, translated name :Patera Silk to Patera Jedwab\n(Jedwab is Silk in polish) I was outraged! I hate so much when this\nhappens, fortunately it's not that common. But I was surprised that this\ncrime was commited by a guy who did an excellent job translating new sun.\nMy question: what do you think? Can translating Silk's name can be somehow\njustified (I'm not yet familiar with long sun) ?" } ] }, { "message_id": "<53FDF33B.5040901@bindweed.com>", "from": { "name": "Gerry Quinn", "address": "gerry at bindweed.com" }, "date": "2014-08-27T15:03:23+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Polish translation of Long Sun.", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 27/08/2014 15:59, Piotr Szcz?sny wrote:\n\nHello people of Urth,\nSome time ago I tried to read the Long Sun in polish, but on first \npages I saw that the translator, translated name :Patera Silk to \nPatera Jedwab (Jedwab is Silk in polish) I was outraged! I hate so \nmuch when this happens, fortunately it's not that common. But I was \nsurprised that this crime was commited by a guy who did an excellent \njob translating new sun.\nMy question: what do you think? Can translating Silk's name can be \nsomehow justified (I'm not yet familiar with long sun) ?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think it can, because in Silk's city, men are named after animal \nproducts, women after vegetable products, and androids after minerals. \nSo to preserve that in the translation, he must translate the names. At \nleast it is a very legitimate reason for doing it this way.\n\n- Gerry Quinn" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Piotr Szczęsny", "address": "neternalz at gmail.com" }, "date": "2014-08-27T15:13:34+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Polish translation of Long Sun.", "in_reply_to": "<53FDF33B.5040901@bindweed.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thanks Gerry, it makes sense now!\n27 sie 2014 17:03 \"Gerry Quinn\" napisa?(a):" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 27/08/2014 15:59, Piotr Szcz?sny wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Hello people of Urth,\nSome time ago I tried to read the Long Sun in polish, but on first pages\nI saw that the translator, translated name :Patera Silk to Patera Jedwab\n(Jedwab is Silk in polish) I was outraged! I hate so much when this\nhappens, fortunately it's not that common. But I was surprised that this\ncrime was commited by a guy who did an excellent job translating new sun.\nMy question: what do you think? Can translating Silk's name can be\nsomehow justified (I'm not yet familiar with long sun) ?\n\n\n I think it can, because in Silk's city, men are named after animal\nproducts, women after vegetable products, and androids after minerals. So\nto preserve that in the translation, he must translate the names. At least\nit is a very legitimate reason for doing it this way." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "- Gerry Quinn\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<53FDF82B.7020308@kurzawa.us>", "from": { "name": "Greg Kurzawa", "address": "greg at kurzawa.us" }, "date": "2014-08-27T15:24:27+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Polish translation of Long Sun.", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 8/27/2014 9:59 AM, Piotr Szcz?sny wrote:\n\nHello people of Urth,\nSome time ago I tried to read the Long Sun in polish, but on first \npages I saw that the translator, translated name :Patera Silk to \nPatera Jedwab (Jedwab is Silk in polish) I was outraged! I hate so \nmuch when this happens, fortunately it's not that common. But I was \nsurprised that this crime was commited by a guy who did an excellent \njob translating new sun.\nMy question: what do you think? Can translating Silk's name can be \nsomehow justified (I'm not yet familiar with long sun) ?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It's also possible that the translator communicated directly with Mr. \nWolfe, and they decided together to do it that way. I've been contacted \nonce by a translator (also Polish) seeking clarification on intended \ntone and minor details, and that was just for a short story. With work \nlike Wolfe's, I would imagine (hope) that the translator received input, \ndirection, and clarification from the author himself.\n\n... which might mean that Wolfe's translators possess insight (straight \nfrom Wolfe) to which the rest of us don't have access." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2014-08-27T16:18:07+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Polish translation of Long Sun.", "in_reply_to": "<53FDF82B.7020308@kurzawa.us>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't know what Wolfe's policy is on answering translator's and editor's\nquestions, but he sure won't answer any of mine about his work anymore, and\nhasn't since like 2003. He doesn't mind hearing what I have to say but he\nkind of ignores the questions. He used to play little narrative games with\nme like write his letters on the back of a page from his original draft.\n The only thing he will do now is say very indirect things like gee I\nalways loved 'lil abner after I told him my \"changeling\" ideas, for\nexample." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wednesday, August 27, 2014, Greg Kurzawa wrote:\n\nOn 8/27/2014 9:59 AM, Piotr Szcz?sny wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Hello people of Urth,\nSome time ago I tried to read the Long Sun in polish, but on first pages\nI saw that the translator, translated name :Patera Silk to Patera Jedwab\n(Jedwab is Silk in polish) I was outraged! I hate so much when this\nhappens, fortunately it's not that common. But I was surprised that this\ncrime was commited by a guy who did an excellent job translating new sun.\nMy question: what do you think? Can translating Silk's name can be\nsomehow justified (I'm not yet familiar with long sun) ?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "It's also possible that the translator communicated directly with Mr.\nWolfe, and they decided together to do it that way. I've been contacted\nonce by a translator (also Polish) seeking clarification on intended tone\nand minor details, and that was just for a short story. With work like\nWolfe's, I would imagine (hope) that the translator received input,\ndirection, and clarification from the author himself.\n\n... which might mean that Wolfe's translators possess insight (straight\nfrom Wolfe) to which the rest of us don't have access.\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<9E9DFEEB-21E9-4BBF-AE13-5DEC57439E98@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "entonio at gmail.com", "address": "entonio at gmail.com" }, "date": "2014-08-27T18:31:54+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Polish translation of Long Sun.", "in_reply_to": "<53FDF33B.5040901@bindweed.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "But notice that the ambiguity of some such names (and Silk is one of them) is part of the story (why have such a naming scheme anyway if not to abuse it), and such things can hardly expect always to be translatable.\nA writer like Wolfe is very difficult to translate well.\n\nNo dia 27/08/2014, ?s 16:03, Gerry Quinn escreveu:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 27/08/2014 15:59, Piotr Szcz?sny wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Hello people of Urth,\nSome time ago I tried to read the Long Sun in polish, but on first pages I saw that the translator, translated name :Patera Silk to Patera Jedwab (Jedwab is Silk in polish) I was outraged! I hate so much when this happens, fortunately it's not that common. But I was surprised that this crime was commited by a guy who did an excellent job translating new sun.\nMy question: what do you think? Can translating Silk's name can be somehow justified (I'm not yet familiar with long sun) ?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I think it can, because in Silk's city, men are named after animal products, women after vegetable products, and androids after minerals. So to preserve that in the translation, he must translate the names. At least it is a very legitimate reason for doing it this way.\n\n- Gerry Quinn\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Piotr Szczęsny", "address": "neternalz at gmail.com" }, "date": "2014-08-27T18:46:38+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Polish translation of Long Sun.", "in_reply_to": "<9E9DFEEB-21E9-4BBF-AE13-5DEC57439E98@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I've read only Book of the New Sun in Polish, then I started reading in\nEnglish (In fact Peace was my first novel that I've read in English). But\nthen I re-read some parts in English and boy, the translator added some to\nthe puzzles. Remember the part at the end of the Citadel, when Severian\ndiscovers the room with dials? The translator used polish word for dial -\n\"zegar\", which is also used in polish for clock, in fact the first thing\nthat pops in your head when you read this word in polish is a clock not a\nsome kind of dial. So for me this place was a room full of clocks...\n\n\n2014-08-27 20:31 GMT+02:00 :" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "But notice that the ambiguity of some such names (and Silk is one of them)\nis part of the story (why have such a naming scheme anyway if not to abuse\nit), and such things can hardly expect always to be translatable.\nA writer like Wolfe is very difficult to translate well.\n\nNo dia 27/08/2014, ?s 16:03, Gerry Quinn escreveu:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On 27/08/2014 15:59, Piotr Szcz?sny wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Hello people of Urth,\nSome time ago I tried to read the Long Sun in polish, but on first\npages I saw that the translator, translated name :Patera Silk to Patera\nJedwab (Jedwab is Silk in polish) I was outraged! I hate so much when this\nhappens, fortunately it's not that common. But I was surprised that this\ncrime was commited by a guy who did an excellent job translating new sun.\nMy question: what do you think? Can translating Silk's name can be\nsomehow justified (I'm not yet familiar with long sun) ?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I think it can, because in Silk's city, men are named after animal\nproducts, women after vegetable products, and androids after minerals. So\nto preserve that in the translation, he must translate the names. At least\nit is a very legitimate reason for doing it this way.\n\n- Gerry Quinn\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2014-08-27T19:41:51+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Polish translation of Long Sun.", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The Italian version translates the entire \"like glass/grass grow to any eye\nnot of me\" doggerel to hide Vodalus' coin completely differently in\nthe first and last books. I haven't looked at that in more than 15 years,\nthough. I think the Spanish translation was pretty good, but I only read\nthrough parts of New Sun, and I picked up my Spanish conversationally\nrather than through any kind of education." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 11:46 AM, Piotr Szcz?sny \nwrote:\nI've read only Book of the New Sun in Polish, then I started reading in\nEnglish (In fact Peace was my first novel that I've read in English). But\nthen I re-read some parts in English and boy, the translator added some to\nthe puzzles. Remember the part at the end of the Citadel, when Severian\ndiscovers the room with dials? The translator used polish word for dial -\n\"zegar\", which is also used in polish for clock, in fact the first thing\nthat pops in your head when you read this word in polish is a clock not a\nsome kind of dial. So for me this place was a room full of clocks..." } ] } ] }