Subject: (urth) Polish translation of Long Sun.

From: Piotr Szczęsny <neternalz at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 14:59:10 +0000

Hello people of Urth,
Some time ago I tried to read the Long Sun in polish, but on first pages I
saw that the translator, translated name :Patera Silk to Patera Jedwab
(Jedwab is Silk in polish) I was outraged! I hate so much when this
happens, fortunately it's not that common. But I was surprised that this
crime was commited by a guy who did an excellent job translating new sun.
My question: what do you think? Can translating Silk's name can be somehow
justified (I'm not yet familiar with long sun)  ?
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From: Gerry Quinn <gerry at bindweed.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 15:03:23 +0000

On 27/08/2014 15:59, Piotr Szcz?sny wrote:
>
> Hello people of Urth,
> Some time ago I tried to read the Long Sun in polish, but on first 
> pages I saw that the translator, translated name :Patera Silk to 
> Patera Jedwab (Jedwab is Silk in polish) I was outraged! I hate so 
> much when this happens, fortunately it's not that common. But I was 
> surprised that this crime was commited by a guy who did an excellent 
> job translating new sun.
> My question: what do you think? Can translating Silk's name can be 
> somehow justified (I'm not yet familiar with long sun) ?
>
>
I think it can, because in Silk's city, men are named after animal 
products, women after vegetable products, and androids after minerals. 
So to preserve that in the translation, he must translate the names. At 
least it is a very legitimate reason for doing it this way.

- Gerry Quinn

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From: Piotr Szczęsny <neternalz at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 15:13:34 +0000

Thanks Gerry, it makes sense now!
27 sie 2014 17:03 "Gerry Quinn" <gerry at bindweed.com> napisa?(a):

>> Some time ago I tried to read the Long Sun in polish, but on first pages
>> I saw that the translator, translated name :Patera Silk to Patera Jedwab
> products, women after vegetable products, and androids after minerals. So
> to preserve that in the translation, he must translate the names. At least
> it is a very legitimate reason for doing it this way.
>
> - Gerry Quinn
> _______________________________________________
> Urth Mailing List
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From: Greg Kurzawa <greg at kurzawa.us>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 15:24:27 +0000

> somehow justified (I'm not yet familiar with long sun) ?

It's also possible that the translator communicated directly with Mr. 
Wolfe, and they decided together to do it that way. I've been contacted 
once by a translator (also Polish) seeking clarification on intended 
tone and minor details, and that was just for a short story. With work 
like Wolfe's, I would imagine (hope) that the translator received input, 
direction, and clarification from the author himself.

... which might mean that Wolfe's translators possess insight (straight 
from Wolfe) to which the rest of us don't have access.

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From: Marc Aramini <marcaramini at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 16:18:07 +0000

I don't know what Wolfe's policy is on answering translator's and editor's
questions, but he sure won't answer any of mine about his work anymore, and
hasn't since like 2003. He doesn't mind hearing what I have to say but he
kind of ignores the questions.  He used to play little narrative games with
me like write his letters on the back of a page from his original draft.
 The only thing he will do now is say very indirect things like gee I
always loved 'lil abner after I told him my "changeling" ideas, for
example.

On Wednesday, August 27, 2014, Greg Kurzawa <greg at kurzawa.us> wrote:

> once by a translator (also Polish) seeking clarification on intended tone
> and minor details, and that was just for a short story. With work like
> Wolfe's, I would imagine (hope) that the translator received input,
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From: entonio at gmail.com <entonio at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 18:31:54 +0000

But notice that the ambiguity of some such names (and Silk is one of them) is part of the story (why have such a naming scheme anyway if not to abuse it), and such things can hardly expect always to be translatable.
A writer like Wolfe is very difficult to translate well.

No dia 27/08/2014, ?s 16:03, Gerry Quinn <gerry at bindweed.com> escreveu:

>> Some time ago I tried to read the Long Sun in polish, but on first pages I saw that the translator, translated name :Patera Silk to Patera Jedwab (Jedwab is Silk in polish) I was outraged! I hate so much when this happens, fortunately it's not that common. But I was surprised that this crime was commited by a guy who did an excellent job translating new sun.
>> My question: what do you think? Can translating Silk's name can be somehow justified (I'm not yet familiar with long sun) ?
>> 
>> 
> I think it can, because in Silk's city, men are named after animal products, women after vegetable products, and androids after minerals. So to preserve that in the translation, he must translate the names. At least it is a very legitimate reason for doing it this way.
> 
> - Gerry Quinn

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From: Piotr Szczęsny <neternalz at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 18:46:38 +0000

I've read only Book of the New Sun in Polish, then I started reading in
English (In fact Peace was my first novel that I've read in English). But
then I re-read some parts in English and boy, the translator added some to
the puzzles. Remember the part at the end of the Citadel, when Severian
discovers the room with dials? The translator used polish word for dial -
"zegar", which is also used in polish for clock, in fact the first thing
that pops in your head when you read this word in polish is a clock not a
some kind of dial. So for me this place was a room full of clocks...

2014-08-27 20:31 GMT+02:00 <entonio at gmail.com>:

> But notice that the ambiguity of some such names (and Silk is one of them)
> is part of the story (why have such a naming scheme anyway if not to abuse
> it), and such things can hardly expect always to be translatable.
> pages I saw that the translator, translated name :Patera Silk to Patera
> Jedwab (Jedwab is Silk in polish) I was outraged! I hate so much when this
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From: Marc Aramini <marcaramini at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 19:41:51 +0000

The Italian version translates the entire "like glass/grass grow to any eye
not of me" doggerel to hide Vodalus' coin completely differently in
the first and last books.  I haven't looked at that in more than 15 years,
though.  I think the Spanish translation was pretty good, but I only read
through parts of New Sun, and I picked up my Spanish conversationally
rather than through any kind of education.

On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 11:46 AM, Piotr Szcz?sny <neternalz at gmail.com>

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