{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6677", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 6677, "subject": "wright's attending daedalus chapter eight", "messages": 3, "voices": 2, "first": "2014-09-22T19:36:13+00:00", "last": "2014-09-23T20:16:45+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2014-09-22T19:36:13+00:00", "subject": "(urth) wright's attending daedalus chapter eight", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I remember reading wright's work years and years ago and being left with\nthe idea that his thesis was just wrong ... And in looking at it again I\nwas more sympathetic until the end of chapter eight, where he pretty much\nsays strange diction, extra-textual allusions, and mythological patterns\nare a never ending trap to entangle the reader when the text itself\ndisplays the Hieros' manipulation as the primary controlling factor.\n\nMy goodness what a New Criticism \"text alone\" reduction to the absurd,\ncoupled with a poststructuralist disregard for valid objective definitions.\nThis is why lit-crit theory fails to shed light on anything except\nindeterminacy. The extra textual references are often confirmation and\nclarifications of textual ambiguities ... Why else have Gildas be the\ncaptain of apprentices when sev first sees Katherine (st Gildas restored a\nwerewolf's wife to life after she was beheaded)? Wolfe used those\nunfamiliar words and structures for a reason - looking those and other\nreferences up is never a waste of time, as Wright seems to imply there.\nWright's volume started out strong in its examination of Wolfe's short work\nand then became mired in a thesis inimical to Wolfe's entire belief system\nin its refutation of free will. I think the text\nprobably misrepresents what Wolfe was doing with language in New Sun. The\nimplication of chapter eight was similar to don't waste time looking up\nstuff." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Lee", "address": "severiansola at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2014-09-23T19:40:23+00:00", "subject": "(urth) wright's attending daedalus chapter eight", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Marc Aramini: Why else have Gildas be the captain of apprentices when sev first sees " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Katherine (st Gildas restored a werewolf's wife to life after she was beheaded)? Wolfe " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "used those unfamiliar words and structures for a reason - looking those and other references " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "up is never a waste of time, as Wright seems to imply there. Wright's volume started out strong " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "In its examination of Wolfe's short work and then became mired in a thesis inimical to Wolfe's " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "entire belief system in its refutation of free will. I think the text probably misrepresents what " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Wolfe was doing with language in New Sun. The implication of chapter eight was similar to " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "don't waste time looking up stuff." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Good detective work on St. Gildas, Marc. I hadn't heard that before and given the werewolf\n\nangle it seems impossible that it could be an unintentional inclusion by Wolfe. I like it because\n\nit adds substance to Dave Tallman's theory about Severian's beheaded mother Catherine being\n\nlinked to the Contessa Carina's maids, Solange, Cyneburga and Lybe, all beheaded saints.\n\n\nRegarding Wright's book, I agree that he leaves huge potential chunks of interpretive content\n\nout in fleshing out his own interpretation of Wolfe's work. But perhaps we all do?\n\n\nWolfe is surely a mystery writer, but I strongly consider him to also be an artist and that he means\n\nto be an artist. Meaning that while he hopes some readers solve his mysteries, he also hopes and \n\nexpects that each reader will interpret his work from their own personal framework of understanding,\n\nnot just regurgitate Wolfe's own specific intentions.\n\n\nIf Wright is an avowed atheist, hey, why not let him have a go at interpreting Wolfe's work from an\n\natheist perspective. If it means leaving things out that he considers not-quite-so-important, more\n\npower to him. I suspect that Wolfe does not WANT there to be a \"right\" answer to understanding\n\nhis work.\n\n\n(evidence- the as-yet unsolved mystery of the numbers on the Seal Of Pas. I've tried pretty hard to \n\nsolve it and I think others far smarter than me have also. Perhaps it is meant to tell us that he includes\n\nunsolvable mysteries in his work. I hate to concede defeat on the Seal Of Pas; I may have another go\n\nat it someday. But insolubility remains a very plausible hypothesis) \t\t \t \t\t " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2014-09-23T20:16:45+00:00", "subject": "(urth) wright's attending daedalus chapter eight", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Seal of pas - Number codes need a key. The talus says the opening code is\n\"Thetis\" and I tried to use a cryptologists decoding from that rotating\nkey but I don't know enough about how to decrypt stuff. Try it with Thetis\nas the keyword - there's a type of common numerical encryption based on key\nwords. That or pas/kypris." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Tuesday, September 23, 2014, Lee > wrote:\nMarc Aramini: Why else have Gildas be the captain of apprentices when sev\nfirst sees" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Katherine (st Gildas restored a werewolf's wife to life after she was\nbeheaded)? Wolfe" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "used those unfamiliar words and structures for a reason - looking those\nand other references" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "up is never a waste of time, as Wright seems to imply there. Wright's\nvolume started out strong" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "In its examination of Wolfe's short work and then became mired in a\nthesis inimical to Wolfe's" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "entire belief system in its refutation of free will. I think the text\nprobably misrepresents what" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Wolfe was doing with language in New Sun. The implication of chapter\neight was similar to" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "don't waste time looking up stuff." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Good detective work on St. Gildas, Marc. I hadn't heard that before and\ngiven the werewolf\n\nangle it seems impossible that it could be an unintentional inclusion by\nWolfe. I like it because\n\nit adds substance to Dave Tallman's theory about Severian's beheaded\nmother Catherine being\n\nlinked to the Contessa Carina's maids, Solange, Cyneburga and Lybe, all\nbeheaded saints.\n\n\nRegarding Wright's book, I agree that he leaves huge potential chunks of\ninterpretive content\n\nout in fleshing out his own interpretation of Wolfe's work. But perhaps we\nall do?\n\n\nWolfe is surely a mystery writer, but I strongly consider him to also be\nan artist and that he means\n\nto be an artist. Meaning that while he hopes some readers solve his\nmysteries, he also hopes and\n\nexpects that each reader will interpret his work from their own personal\nframework of understanding,\n\nnot just regurgitate Wolfe's own specific intentions.\n\n\nIf Wright is an avowed atheist, hey, why not let him have a go at\ninterpreting Wolfe's work from an\n\natheist perspective. If it means leaving things out that he considers\nnot-quite-so-important, more\n\npower to him. I suspect that Wolfe does not WANT there to be a \"right\"\nanswer to understanding\n\nhis work.\n\n\n(evidence- the as-yet unsolved mystery of the numbers on the Seal Of Pas.\nI've tried pretty hard to\n\nsolve it and I think others far smarter than me have also. Perhaps it is\nmeant to tell us that he includes\n\nunsolvable mysteries in his work. I hate to concede defeat on the Seal Of\nPas; I may have another go\n\nat it someday. But insolubility remains a very plausible hypothesis)\n_______________________________________________" } ] } ] }