{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/67", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 67, "subject": "The Castle & Wolfe's Christianity", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "1997-06-24T12:33:58+00:00", "last": "1997-06-25T00:43:04+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Peter Cash", "address": "cash at rsn.hp.com" }, "date": "1997-06-24T12:33:58+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The Castle & Wolfe's Christianity", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I wrote earlier:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "The castle is the Church? That hadn't come into my mind at all. What\nindications are there in CASTLEVIEW that this is so? I would have\nthought that the Castle represented the power of imagination and of\nmyth, and served as a reminder that reality is not necessarily as we\nthink it is. What Christian symbolism did you see in the Castle? How can\nit be the Kingdom of God if it is inhabited by such signally\nun-Christian personages as Morgana and Thor (leading the Wild Hunt)? " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "To which Jim \"Nutria\" Jordan replied:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Sorry. E-mailish briefitudinousness overcame me. The castle clearly varies\naccording to perspective: for some it is a spaceship; just as the wild\nride/hunt is perceived differently. I take it as the kind of ideal home,\nconnected to the transcendent, of which the Church is the purest and proper\nform. But perhaps I should re-read." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Sorry, it's easy to take emailed remarks out of context, or give them an\nemphasis that distorts their meaning. I think we agree on this--the\nCastle represents a lot of things.\n\nAs I indicated toward the end of my response, there is something to be\nsaid for the Castle as the Church (or _a_ church, at any rate). Castles\ndon't usually have gargoyles, but cathedrals do. And how many candles\nwere there in the room into which little Judy blunders? (Sorry, but I\ndon't have the book at work.) As she looks away, they become \"singing\nladies\". If they were three, perhaps they represent the Trinity, seen\nthrough a child's eyes. But then again, maybe they were the Norns, or\nthe Fates.\n\nI guess my reaction was partly driven by the fact that people seem to be\ntoo quick to find Christian associations for symbols in Wolfe's work,\njust because they know he's Catholic. I do think that a _lot_ of the\nsymbols have their source in Wolfe's Catholic education (as well as his\ncatholic one), but that doesn't make them Christian. In fact, they often\noccur in a setting that suggests a conflation of Christianity and\npaganism. For example, if the Castle has the aspects of a Church, then\nthis is more than a little troubling, for it also has overpoweringly\npagan attributes. Is Wolfe saying that Christianity is only one of many\nways to perceive the truth? If so, then he's deviated from Catholic\ndoctrine (as well as anything that can be called mainstream Christian\ntheology). \n\nIt might be profitable to contrast Wolfe with C. S. Lewis. Lewis wrote\nwhat I would call Christian fantasy--his stories take place in a world\nwhere the Christian beliefs are demonstrably true, or--in the case of\nhis Narnia books--where Christianity is presented allegorically. Wolfe\ndoes neither; I would say that Wolfe does not write about Christianity\nat all, he writes about Paganism. (There's one exception I can think of\nto this--\"The Detective of Dreams\". That's Christian writing.) Wolfe's\nChristianity manifests itself indirectly, in that he often shows the\nPagan world in a dim light. \n\nAh, I write in haste. Perhaps I can make this clearer at some other\ntime. (First, I'll have to make it clearer to myself.)\n\nPeter" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jim Jordan", "address": "jbjordan at gnt.net" }, "date": "1997-06-25T00:43:04+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) The Castle & Wolfe's Christianity", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 12:33 PM 6/24/97 -0500, you wrote:\n\nI guess my reaction was partly driven by the fact that people seem to be\ntoo quick to find Christian associations for symbols in Wolfe's work,\njust because they know he's Catholic. I do think that a _lot_ of the\nsymbols have their source in Wolfe's Catholic education (as well as his\ncatholic one), but that doesn't make them Christian. In fact, they often\noccur in a setting that suggests a conflation of Christianity and\npaganism. For example, if the Castle has the aspects of a Church, then\nthis is more than a little troubling, for it also has overpoweringly\npagan attributes. Is Wolfe saying that Christianity is only one of many\nways to perceive the truth? If so, then he's deviated from Catholic\ndoctrine (as well as anything that can be called mainstream Christian\ntheology). \n\nIt might be profitable to contrast Wolfe with C. S. Lewis. Lewis wrote\nwhat I would call Christian fantasy--his stories take place in a world\nwhere the Christian beliefs are demonstrably true, or--in the case of\nhis Narnia books--where Christianity is presented allegorically. Wolfe\ndoes neither; I would say that Wolfe does not write about Christianity\nat all, he writes about Paganism. (There's one exception I can think of\nto this--\"The Detective of Dreams\". That's Christian writing.) Wolfe's\nChristianity manifests itself indirectly, in that he often shows the\nPagan world in a dim light. \n\nAh, I write in haste. Perhaps I can make this clearer at some other\ntime. (First, I'll have to make it clearer to myself.)\n\nPeter" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tI think you are largely right. Wolfe tends to write horror stories, and\nthus writes critically of things he regards as destructive to human life. I\nthink the way to take the conflation of Christianity and paganism in some\nof his writings is fairly simple: He is attacking idolatry. Idolatry is\nboth false and partial. As false, is offers a simplistic and destructive\nhope. As partial, it has part of the truth and may open a door to more of\nit. Christianity, in his view, absorbs the good parts of paganism. Thus,\nfrom this kind of perspective, I don't have a problem with a mixed image\nsuch as one seems to find in Castleview.\n\n\tMaybe that helps.\n\nNutria" } ] } ] }