{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6709",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 6709,
    "subject": "Any strong defenders/defenses of LAND ACROSS?",
    "messages": 5,
    "voices": 1,
    "first": "2015-01-16T00:58:55+00:00",
    "last": "2015-01-16T01:53:44+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<54B8624F.8080600@verizon.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "David Stockhoff",
        "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net"
      },
      "date": "2015-01-16T00:58:55+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Any strong defenders/defenses of LAND ACROSS?",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I sometimes fear that to understand Wolfe, I will have to read everything."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "On 12/23/2014 7:16 PM, David Duffy wrote:\nOn Tue, 23 Dec 2014, Nick Lee wrote:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "This discussion has turned my attention back to the Land Across and \nmy old\nnotes. I'd originally intended to write a series of essays on TLA but \nlost\nthe time and will. What follows is a summary of my thoughts after I read\nthe book and did some research just after it was released. I've just \nadded\nmany paragraphs from memory. I've lost some of my notes. I'd post it\ndirectly to the list, but I hate what it does to my formatting.\n\nhttps://vagueshrine.wordpress.com/2014/12/23/the-land-across/"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Very interesting.  A review of the Eliades book mentions:\n\n'In chapter 1, \"The Dacians and Wolves\", the author adduces \nsubstantial evidence...of the original meaning \"wolf\" for the tribe \nname \"Daci\", which places this group in the line of peoples who \nconsidered a blue or grau\nshe-wolf their mythical ancestor.  This is substantiated by a number of\nvaluable observations on the role of the wolf... and werewolves.'\n\n\n\n\n_______________________________________________"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<54B86742.5070503@verizon.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "David Stockhoff",
        "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net"
      },
      "date": "2015-01-16T01:20:02+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Any strong defenders/defenses of LAND ACROSS?",
      "in_reply_to": "<54B8624F.8080600@verizon.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "On 12/24/2014 1:51 AM, David Duffy wrote:\nSorry to be boring. The helpful man in black with his wolves partakes \nof lots of different mythologies, but specifically in Slavic folktales \nthere is the Wolf-Shepherd, who is both Master of the Wolves and \nprotector of cattle. He is identified with several saints (SS George, \nMartin...) and\nappears especially in the wolf holidays: Nov 1, 2, 11, and the twelve \nnights of Christmas (\"wolf nights\").  He summons and dismisses wolves \naround pasturing season, and is a healer...(from Supernatural beings \nfrom Slovenian myth and folktales By Monika Kropej)."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "If this is boring, please continue to be boring!\n\nI initially thought the man with burning eyes might be the ghost of Vlad \nthe Impaler or something, because the small man associates Vlad with the \nlake house, which is haunted by a man with burning eyes (p49-50). But \nyour interpretation better fits his behavior. That conversation also \ntouched on demons, fairies, cherubim, and bells.\n\nThe character who drives me crazy is the Leader, who appears to project \nhimself, eidolon-like, only where he is needed. Can werewolves do this? \nIs he Zalmoxis?"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<54B867E8.1060000@verizon.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "David Stockhoff",
        "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net"
      },
      "date": "2015-01-16T01:22:48+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Any strong defenders/defenses of LAND ACROSS?",
      "in_reply_to": "<54B86742.5070503@verizon.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "On 12/24/2014 12:43 AM, David Duffy wrote:\n\nMore googling about Eliade brings up his links in the 1930-40s with \nthe Legion of the Archangel Michael (Iron Guard, Romanian Nazi Party). \nThey took up Zalmoxis as a precursor of Christianity, and sought \"a \nChristian revolution, a spiritual, ascetic, manly revolution\".  I \nthink others have suggested they might be a model for the Legion of \nLight, or possibly for the current government.\n\nCheers, David Duffy\n\nPS re transliterated Greek words Mousukos <- Mousikos\n\nPPS Why does Grafton dislike the sound of the glass bell the\nArchbishop rings?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Bells seem to be associated with the Fee and cherubs (p50). Grafton may \nbe linked with beings opposed to them, again perhaps werewolves. The \nMaster seems to like him.\n\nThis actually makes Grafton a bit like Latro, IIRC."
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<54B86BB0.10106@verizon.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "David Stockhoff",
        "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net"
      },
      "date": "2015-01-16T01:38:56+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Any strong defenders/defenses of LAND ACROSS?",
      "in_reply_to": "<54B867E8.1060000@verizon.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "On 12/22/2014 11:54 PM, Nick Lee wrote:\nThis discussion has turned my attention back to the Land Across and my \nold notes. I'd originally intended to write a series of essays on TLA \nbut lost the time and will. What follows is a summary of my thoughts \nafter I read the book and did some research just after it was \nreleased. I've just added many paragraphs from memory. I've lost some \nof my notes. I'd post it directly to the list, but I hate what it does \nto my formatting.\n\nhttps://vagueshrine.wordpress.com/2014/12/23/the-land-across/"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I'd guess that Paraustays means something more like \"beyond regret.\" \nDead, in other words."
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<54B86F28.9070101@verizon.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "David Stockhoff",
        "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net"
      },
      "date": "2015-01-16T01:53:44+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Any strong defenders/defenses of LAND ACROSS?",
      "in_reply_to": "<54B86BB0.10106@verizon.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "On 12/18/2014 4:25 PM, Greg Kurzawa wrote:\n4. The Archbishop was not the Undead Dragon.\n5. Grafton pushed the Archbishop from the tower, but it wasn't the \nreal Archbishop.\n6. The Archbishop (at the time he \"jumped\" from the tower) was an \nImprint Doll.\n7. (I like this one) The Russ that Grafton met in prison was actually \nan Imprint Doll, probably the very same Doll that \"jumped\" from the tower."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Greg\n\nThe imprint dolls are a pain, like playing with a deck full of wild \ncards. I guess we need to look for anything out of the ordinary, just as \nin a Wolf novel with androids.\n\n(1) When the archbishop dies, there is a small bit of blood: \"a tiny dot \nof red.\"\n\n(2) The archbishop moves \"a lot faster than I would have thought a man \nhis age could.\"\n\n(3) \"People in movies scream all the way down,\" but \"He did not make a \nsingle sound until he hit.\"\n\nVery ambiguous. Unfortunately, I don't think we have a good idea of how \nthe dolls behave, nor how the Undead Dragon would behave. The guy seemed \npretty much like an old archbishop to me."
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}