{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6739", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 6739, "subject": "No Planets Strike question for those with religious\n backgrounds ...", "messages": 10, "voices": 5, "first": "2015-04-26T11:58:23+00:00", "last": "2015-04-27T14:38:22+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2015-04-26T11:58:23+00:00", "subject": "(urth) No Planets Strike question for those with religious\n backgrounds ...", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I am writing up a whole bunch of the short story ones now, and there is a\nscene at the end of the rather allegorical (but obviously so) No Planets\nStrike, which depicts the reign of the pagan world (The Beautiful Ones of\nthe planet Sidhe/The Fair Ones) as alien control of humanity, and pretty\nmuch involves scenes directly from the bible and the life of Christ from\nour narrator Donkey ... and there is a scene at the end where he talks\nabout folks going to the planet Barrmaser, though some pronounce it\nBiladmaser.\n\nThese words are Somalian words, and \"maser\" is tissue. If it stopped there\nI would expect it to be mere coincidence, but in Somali Barr means\n\"important events\" and Bilad means \"sword\" ... so we have three Somalian\nwords.\n\nDoes \"tissue of Swords\" or \"Tissue of important events\" mean anything to\nanyone here with a knowledge of the Christian religion or the transition\nfrom the pagan world to the Christian one?\n\nI do not think the sound similarities to a Jewish concept such as a bar\nmitzvah (where bar implies son) is necessarily the way to go with this,\nsince all three components are actual words in an existing language ..." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2015-04-26T12:17:37+00:00", "subject": "(urth) No Planets Strike question for those with religious\n backgrounds ...", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I suppose it could mean \"web of swords/important events\" as well...\n\nThe story also uses the donkey and the bull to re-enact the rather famous\nallegory of the long spoons - hell would be much more like heaven if the\npeople fed each other rather than simply tried to feed themselves.\n\nI feel that Wolfe's religious stories, for whatever reason, are highly\ndependent upon older texts.\n\n\"How the Bishop Sailed to Inniskeen\" is intensely dependent upon T.H.\nWhite's biographical travels to the Inniskeas, where White became obsessed\nwith a possibly pagan stone used as the pillow of a holy man which was\nappropriated in Catholic reverence, depicted in his nonfictional \"The\nGodstone and the Blackymore\". There is a scene at the start of that in\nwhich the historically ambiguously sexually oriented White talks to his\nolder patron Bunny passionately about falconry that reminded me so strongly\nof Blood and Musk in The Book of the Long Sun that it was almost shocking." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 4:58 AM, Marc Aramini wrote:\nI am writing up a whole bunch of the short story ones now, and there is a\nscene at the end of the rather allegorical (but obviously so) No Planets\nStrike, which depicts the reign of the pagan world (The Beautiful Ones of\nthe planet Sidhe/The Fair Ones) as alien control of humanity, and pretty\nmuch involves scenes directly from the bible and the life of Christ from\nour narrator Donkey ... and there is a scene at the end where he talks\nabout folks going to the planet Barrmaser, though some pronounce it\nBiladmaser.\n\nThese words are Somalian words, and \"maser\" is tissue. If it stopped\nthere I would expect it to be mere coincidence, but in Somali Barr means\n\"important events\" and Bilad means \"sword\" ... so we have three Somalian\nwords.\n\nDoes \"tissue of Swords\" or \"Tissue of important events\" mean anything to\nanyone here with a knowledge of the Christian religion or the transition\nfrom the pagan world to the Christian one?\n\nI do not think the sound similarities to a Jewish concept such as a bar\nmitzvah (where bar implies son) is necessarily the way to go with this,\nsince all three components are actual words in an existing language ..." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2015-04-26T14:21:07+00:00", "subject": "(urth) No Planets Strike question for those with religious\n backgrounds ...", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\"In The Godstone and the Blackymore,\" White even comments on being observed\nby a Chough:\n\n\"I thought how strange that young ravens should be as small as jackdaws,\nthat they should have this thin and almost curlew beak. I looked earnestly\nupon the beak, and upon the feet. My heart bounded as I distinguished the\nredness, even against the sky. No wonder they were so trim, so much\nlovelier than any of the black-guard I had previously known. They were not\nravens at all. They were the red-beaked choughs of legend, looking on Man\nfor the first time as I on them.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 5:17 AM, Marc Aramini wrote:\nI suppose it could mean \"web of swords/important events\" as well...\n\nThe story also uses the donkey and the bull to re-enact the rather famous\nallegory of the long spoons - hell would be much more like heaven if the\npeople fed each other rather than simply tried to feed themselves.\n\nI feel that Wolfe's religious stories, for whatever reason, are highly\ndependent upon older texts.\n\n\"How the Bishop Sailed to Inniskeen\" is intensely dependent upon T.H.\nWhite's biographical travels to the Inniskeas, where White became obsessed\nwith a possibly pagan stone used as the pillow of a holy man which was\nappropriated in Catholic reverence, depicted in his nonfictional \"The\nGodstone and the Blackymore\". There is a scene at the start of that in\nwhich the historically ambiguously sexually oriented White talks to his\nolder patron Bunny passionately about falconry that reminded me so strongly\nof Blood and Musk in The Book of the Long Sun that it was almost shocking.\n\nOn Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 4:58 AM, Marc Aramini \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I am writing up a whole bunch of the short story ones now, and there is a\nscene at the end of the rather allegorical (but obviously so) No Planets\nStrike, which depicts the reign of the pagan world (The Beautiful Ones of\nthe planet Sidhe/The Fair Ones) as alien control of humanity, and pretty\nmuch involves scenes directly from the bible and the life of Christ from\nour narrator Donkey ... and there is a scene at the end where he talks\nabout folks going to the planet Barrmaser, though some pronounce it\nBiladmaser.\n\nThese words are Somalian words, and \"maser\" is tissue. If it stopped\nthere I would expect it to be mere coincidence, but in Somali Barr means\n\"important events\" and Bilad means \"sword\" ... so we have three Somalian\nwords.\n\nDoes \"tissue of Swords\" or \"Tissue of important events\" mean anything to\nanyone here with a knowledge of the Christian religion or the transition\nfrom the pagan world to the Christian one?\n\nI do not think the sound similarities to a Jewish concept such as a bar\nmitzvah (where bar implies son) is necessarily the way to go with this,\nsince all three components are actual words in an existing language ..." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Stephen Hoy", "address": "stephenhoy15 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2015-04-26T19:46:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) No Planets Strike question for those with religious\n backgrounds ...", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "What if Donkey's great ears mis-heard 'bilad masih' as biladmaser? This\nis nearly arabic for 'land of the messiah'. 'barr' denotes 'land' as well." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 9:21 AM, Marc Aramini wrote:\n\"In The Godstone and the Blackymore,\" White even comments on being\nobserved by a Chough:\n\n\"I thought how strange that young ravens should be as small as jackdaws,\nthat they should have this thin and almost curlew beak. I looked earnestly\nupon the beak, and upon the feet. My heart bounded as I distinguished the\nredness, even against the sky. No wonder they were so trim, so much\nlovelier than any of the black-guard I had previously known. They were not\nravens at all. They were the red-beaked choughs of legend, looking on Man\nfor the first time as I on them.\"\n\nOn Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 5:17 AM, Marc Aramini \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I suppose it could mean \"web of swords/important events\" as well...\n\nThe story also uses the donkey and the bull to re-enact the rather famous\nallegory of the long spoons - hell would be much more like heaven if the\npeople fed each other rather than simply tried to feed themselves.\n\nI feel that Wolfe's religious stories, for whatever reason, are highly\ndependent upon older texts.\n\n\"How the Bishop Sailed to Inniskeen\" is intensely dependent upon T.H.\nWhite's biographical travels to the Inniskeas, where White became obsessed\nwith a possibly pagan stone used as the pillow of a holy man which was\nappropriated in Catholic reverence, depicted in his nonfictional \"The\nGodstone and the Blackymore\". There is a scene at the start of that in\nwhich the historically ambiguously sexually oriented White talks to his\nolder patron Bunny passionately about falconry that reminded me so strongly\nof Blood and Musk in The Book of the Long Sun that it was almost shocking.\n\nOn Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 4:58 AM, Marc Aramini \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "I am writing up a whole bunch of the short story ones now, and there is\na scene at the end of the rather allegorical (but obviously so) No Planets\nStrike, which depicts the reign of the pagan world (The Beautiful Ones of\nthe planet Sidhe/The Fair Ones) as alien control of humanity, and pretty\nmuch involves scenes directly from the bible and the life of Christ from\nour narrator Donkey ... and there is a scene at the end where he talks\nabout folks going to the planet Barrmaser, though some pronounce it\nBiladmaser.\n\nThese words are Somalian words, and \"maser\" is tissue. If it stopped\nthere I would expect it to be mere coincidence, but in Somali Barr means\n\"important events\" and Bilad means \"sword\" ... so we have three Somalian\nwords.\n\nDoes \"tissue of Swords\" or \"Tissue of important events\" mean anything to\nanyone here with a knowledge of the Christian religion or the transition\nfrom the pagan world to the Christian one?\n\nI do not think the sound similarities to a Jewish concept such as a bar\nmitzvah (where bar implies son) is necessarily the way to go with this,\nsince all three components are actual words in an existing language ..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<7810D613-2079-4EE4-813C-FE6DAC3588CA@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Matthew King", "address": "automatthew at gmail.com" }, "date": "2015-04-26T19:55:22+00:00", "subject": "(urth) No Planets Strike question for those with religious\n\tbackgrounds ...", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Could this be a joke related to the maser/master mixup with The God and His Man?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Apr 26, 2015, at 6:58 AM, Marc Aramini wrote:\n\nBiladmaser" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "marcaramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2015-04-26T20:00:31+00:00", "subject": "(urth) No Planets Strike question for those with religious\n backgrounds ...", "in_reply_to": "<7810D613-2079-4EE4-813C-FE6DAC3588CA@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nI thought about that too but that feels a bit too self-referentially meta- for Wolfe to me ... I feel like the majority of his short stories do not refer necessarily to other of his own works for interpretive cruxes, even if they are variations on a theme (but ironically... he doesnt mind doing that with older references to culture, literature, or whatever external to his work ....)\n\n\nSent via the Samsung Galaxy Alpha?, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone\n\n-------- Original message --------\nFrom: Matthew King \nDate: 04/26/2015 12:55 PM (GMT-07:00) \nTo: The Urth Mailing List \nSubject: Re: (urth) No Planets Strike question for those with religious\n \tbackgrounds ... \n\nCould this be a joke related to the maser/master mixup with The God and His Man?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Apr 26, 2015, at 6:58 AM, Marc Aramini wrote:\n\nBiladmaser" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "marcaramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2015-04-26T20:02:23+00:00", "subject": "(urth) No Planets Strike question for those with religious\n backgrounds ...", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nCould very well be, since it is a place and makes more sense than using somali there ... Thanks!?\n\n\nSent via the Samsung Galaxy Alpha?, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone\n\n-------- Original message --------\nFrom: Stephen Hoy \nDate: 04/26/2015 12:46 PM (GMT-07:00) \nTo: The Urth Mailing List \nSubject: Re: (urth) No Planets Strike question for those with religious backgrounds ... \n\nWhat if Donkey's great ears mis-heard 'bilad masih' “as biladmaser?” This is nearly arabic for 'land of the messiah'. 'barr' denotes 'land' as well.\nOn Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 9:21 AM, Marc Aramini wrote:\n\"In The Godstone and the Blackymore,\" White even comments on being observed by a Chough: \"I thought how strange that young ravens should be as small as jackdaws, that they should have this thin and almost curlew beak. I looked earnestly upon the beak, and upon the feet. My heart bounded as I distinguished the redness, even against the sky. No wonder they were so trim, so much lovelier than any of the black-guard I had previously known. They were not ravens at all. They were the red-beaked choughs of legend, looking on Man for the first time as I on them.\" \nOn Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 5:17 AM, Marc Aramini wrote:\nI suppose it could mean \"web of swords/important events\" as well...\n\nThe story also uses the donkey and the bull to re-enact the rather famous allegory of the long spoons - hell would be much more like heaven if the people fed each other rather than simply tried to feed themselves.\n\nI feel that Wolfe's religious stories, for whatever reason, are highly dependent upon older texts. \n\n\"How the Bishop Sailed to Inniskeen\" is intensely dependent upon T.H. White's biographical travels to the Inniskeas, where White became obsessed with a possibly pagan stone used as the pillow of a holy man which was appropriated in Catholic reverence, depicted in his nonfictional \"The Godstone and the Blackymore\". There is a scene at the start of that in which the historically ambiguously sexually oriented White talks to his older patron Bunny passionately about falconry that reminded me so strongly of Blood and Musk in The Book of the Long Sun that it was almost shocking.\n\nOn Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 4:58 AM, Marc Aramini wrote:\nI am writing up a whole bunch of the short story ones now, and there is a scene at the end of the rather allegorical (but obviously so) No Planets Strike, which depicts the reign of the pagan world (The Beautiful Ones of the planet Sidhe/The Fair Ones) as alien control of humanity, and pretty much involves scenes directly from the bible and the life of Christ from our narrator Donkey ... and there is a scene at the end where he talks about folks going to the planet Barrmaser, though some pronounce it Biladmaser.\n\nThese words are Somalian words, and \"maser\" is tissue. If it stopped there I would expect it to be mere coincidence, but in Somali Barr means \"important events\" and Bilad means \"sword\" ... so we have three Somalian words.\n\nDoes \"tissue of Swords\" or \"Tissue of important events\" mean anything to anyone here with a knowledge of the Christian religion or the transition from the pagan world to the Christian one?\n\nI do not think the sound similarities to a Jewish concept such as a bar mitzvah (where bar implies son) is necessarily the way to go with this, since all three components are actual words in an existing language ..." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jason Cassidy", "address": "bowenkge at gmail.com" }, "date": "2015-04-26T20:24:03+00:00", "subject": "(urth) No Planets Strike question for those with religious\n\tbackgrounds ...", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but I wonder if a connection could\nbe made regarding the story of the talking donkey in the book of Numbers?\nIf recollection serves, the prophet Balaam is hired by the king of the\nMoabites to curse 'a people who have come out of Egypt' and settled near\nhis lands (the Israelites). God is not keen on Balaam cursing his Chosen\npeople and figures they can live anywhere they want now that they're free\nof Egypt, but tells Balaam to go ahead and see the Moabite king anyways,\nand to only say what God tells him to say. On the way there, Balaam is\nriding on his donkey and Angel of the Lord keeps getting in his way.\nHowever, the donkey is the only one who can see the angel, so it keeps\nstopping and Balaam keeps whipping it. Eventually God gives the donkey the\npower of speech and it says something along the lines of 'why do you keep\nwhipping me every time I stop? Have I ever steered you wrong before?'\n Balaam admits to the donkey that it hasn't and only then does the prophet\nsee the Angel of the Lord. God again reminds him to only say what God\ntells him to say.\n\nPerhaps if, as Stephen suggested, Donkey actually heard something akin to\n'the land of the messiah,' could he be referring to, in a sense, the land\nwhere the chosen people settled and God wanted them to have? Is it a\nrequest for the Beautiful Ones to just get out of the way so that a more\ndeserving people can inherit the planet?\n\n\n", "from": { "name": "Norwood, Frederick Hudson", "address": "norwoodr at mail.etsu.edu" }, "date": "2015-04-27T12:07:04+00:00", "subject": "(urth) No Planets Strike question for those with religious\n backgrounds ...", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "T. H. White is one of my favorite authors — up there with Wolfe, Tolkien, and Peake. I hope the reference in the first X-Men movie brought him new readers. I recently read Farewell Victoria for the first time. Does anyone know what Wolfe thinks about White?\n\nRick\n\nFrom: Urth [mailto:urth-bounces at lists.urth.net] On Behalf Of Marc Aramini\nSent: Sunday, April 26, 2015 10:21 AM\nTo: The Urth Mailing List\nSubject: Re: (urth) No Planets Strike question for those with religious backgrounds ...\n\n\"In The Godstone and the Blackymore,\" White even comments on being observed by a Chough:\n\n\"I thought how strange that young ravens should be as small as jackdaws, that they should have this thin and almost curlew beak. I looked earnestly upon the beak, and upon the feet. My heart bounded as I distinguished the redness, even against the sky. No wonder they were so trim, so much lovelier than any of the black-guard I had previously known. They were not ravens at all. They were the red-beaked choughs of legend, looking on Man for the first time as I on them.\"\n\nOn Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 5:17 AM, Marc Aramini > wrote:\nI suppose it could mean \"web of swords/important events\" as well...\nThe story also uses the donkey and the bull to re-enact the rather famous allegory of the long spoons - hell would be much more like heaven if the people fed each other rather than simply tried to feed themselves.\nI feel that Wolfe's religious stories, for whatever reason, are highly dependent upon older texts.\n\n\"How the Bishop Sailed to Inniskeen\" is intensely dependent upon T.H. White's biographical travels to the Inniskeas, where White became obsessed with a possibly pagan stone used as the pillow of a holy man which was appropriated in Catholic reverence, depicted in his nonfictional \"The Godstone and the Blackymore\". There is a scene at the start of that in which the historically ambiguously sexually oriented White talks to his older patron Bunny passionately about falconry that reminded me so strongly of Blood and Musk in The Book of the Long Sun that it was almost shocking.\n\nOn Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 4:58 AM, Marc Aramini > wrote:\nI am writing up a whole bunch of the short story ones now, and there is a scene at the end of the rather allegorical (but obviously so) No Planets Strike, which depicts the reign of the pagan world (The Beautiful Ones of the planet Sidhe/The Fair Ones) as alien control of humanity, and pretty much involves scenes directly from the bible and the life of Christ from our narrator Donkey ... and there is a scene at the end where he talks about folks going to the planet Barrmaser, though some pronounce it Biladmaser.\nThese words are Somalian words, and \"maser\" is tissue. If it stopped there I would expect it to be mere coincidence, but in Somali Barr means \"important events\" and Bilad means \"sword\" ... so we have three Somalian words.\nDoes \"tissue of Swords\" or \"Tissue of important events\" mean anything to anyone here with a knowledge of the Christian religion or the transition from the pagan world to the Christian one?\nI do not think the sound similarities to a Jewish concept such as a bar mitzvah (where bar implies son) is necessarily the way to go with this, since all three components are actual words in an existing language ..." } ] }, { "message_id": "<0DA454A32913114C9CC19BB781FB907D02DCC6@ETSUMB2.etsu.edu>", "from": { "name": "Norwood, Frederick Hudson", "address": "norwoodr at mail.etsu.edu" }, "date": "2015-04-27T14:38:22+00:00", "subject": "(urth) No Planets Strike question for those with religious\n backgrounds ...", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "T. H. White’s biography makes it clear that he was sexually attracted to young children, and that he lived asexually for most of his life, substituting erudition for sexuality.\n\nRick\n\nFrom: Urth [mailto:urth-bounces at lists.urth.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Hoy\nSent: Sunday, April 26, 2015 3:46 PM\nTo: The Urth Mailing List\nSubject: Re: (urth) No Planets Strike question for those with religious backgrounds ...\n\nWhat if Donkey's great ears mis-heard 'bilad masih' as biladmaser? This is nearly arabic for 'land of the messiah'. 'barr' denotes 'land' as well.\n\nOn Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 9:21 AM, Marc Aramini > wrote:\n\"In The Godstone and the Blackymore,\" White even comments on being observed by a Chough:\n\n\"I thought how strange that young ravens should be as small as jackdaws, that they should have this thin and almost curlew beak. I looked earnestly upon the beak, and upon the feet. My heart bounded as I distinguished the redness, even against the sky. No wonder they were so trim, so much lovelier than any of the black-guard I had previously known. They were not ravens at all. They were the red-beaked choughs of legend, looking on Man for the first time as I on them.\"\n\nOn Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 5:17 AM, Marc Aramini > wrote:\nI suppose it could mean \"web of swords/important events\" as well...\nThe story also uses the donkey and the bull to re-enact the rather famous allegory of the long spoons - hell would be much more like heaven if the people fed each other rather than simply tried to feed themselves.\nI feel that Wolfe's religious stories, for whatever reason, are highly dependent upon older texts.\n\n\"How the Bishop Sailed to Inniskeen\" is intensely dependent upon T.H. White's biographical travels to the Inniskeas, where White became obsessed with a possibly pagan stone used as the pillow of a holy man which was appropriated in Catholic reverence, depicted in his nonfictional \"The Godstone and the Blackymore\". There is a scene at the start of that in which the historically ambiguously sexually oriented White talks to his older patron Bunny passionately about falconry that reminded me so strongly of Blood and Musk in The Book of the Long Sun that it was almost shocking.\n\nOn Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 4:58 AM, Marc Aramini > wrote:\nI am writing up a whole bunch of the short story ones now, and there is a scene at the end of the rather allegorical (but obviously so) No Planets Strike, which depicts the reign of the pagan world (The Beautiful Ones of the planet Sidhe/The Fair Ones) as alien control of humanity, and pretty much involves scenes directly from the bible and the life of Christ from our narrator Donkey ... and there is a scene at the end where he talks about folks going to the planet Barrmaser, though some pronounce it Biladmaser.\nThese words are Somalian words, and \"maser\" is tissue. If it stopped there I would expect it to be mere coincidence, but in Somali Barr means \"important events\" and Bilad means \"sword\" ... so we have three Somalian words.\nDoes \"tissue of Swords\" or \"Tissue of important events\" mean anything to anyone here with a knowledge of the Christian religion or the transition from the pagan world to the Christian one?\nI do not think the sound similarities to a Jewish concept such as a bar mitzvah (where bar implies son) is necessarily the way to go with this, since all three components are actual words in an existing language ..." } ] } ] }