{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6766", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 6766, "subject": "tongue in cheek (?) wolfe profile", "messages": 7, "voices": 5, "first": "2017-11-17T13:47:27+00:00", "last": "2017-11-18T12:16:18+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2017-11-17T13:47:27+00:00", "subject": "(urth) tongue in cheek (?) wolfe profile", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Here is a kind of strange profile of wolfe at the top ... I suppose it is\nsupposed to be a little tongue in cheek but considering that Wolfe was\ndrafted and both my parents served in the military I didn’t appreciate the\n“killing babies in Asia” line even if it was a joke ... a bit tone deaf.\n\nhttps://newpoplitinteractive.wordpress.com/" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Eric Bourland", "address": "eb at hwaet.com" }, "date": "2017-11-17T14:46:34+00:00", "subject": "(urth) tongue in cheek (?) wolfe profile", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You know, I just wasted ten minutes of my morning to scold this young \nman in the comments. I do not know if my comment will persist. I might \nhave gotten a little hot under the collar myself.\n\nFriend,\n\nWolfe was drafted in his early twenties and sent to war. If you read his \nLetters Home, you will learn more about that: a collection of loving, \nreassuring letters that he wrote to his worried mother while he was \nstationed in Korea. He was barely twenty-one or twenty-two. He's not \nfascist in the slightest and not even particularly conservative; his \nreflections, in books like Peace or Free Live Free, on the nation of \nAmerica are loving of America and its people and the people of the \nworld. If anything, he laments the foolishness of politicians. In books \nlike Home Fires and A Borrowed Man, you can tell he has put a great deal \nof thought, and a lot of reading, into the results of fascism, \nnationalism, populism, capitalism. It might come off as small-minded to \nbring up his very early work in the 1960s; it's not fair or advisable to \njudge the tone or intention of a writer by his juvenalia. He was drafted \nby the military-industrial complex of America and sent to war. He shot \nat people who were shooting at him, and none of them, I imagine, wanted \nto be there. I am not trying to offend you, but the sarcastic tone of \nyour text comes across as anger, rather than an appreciation. You mostly \njust sound angry. It's OK to be angry, but I don't know if it's useful \nto take it out on Gene Wolfe. Yours,\n\nEric Bourland" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 11/17/2017 8:47 AM, Marc Aramini wrote:\nHere is a kind of strange profile of wolfe at the top?... I suppose it \nis supposed to be a little tongue in cheek but considering that Wolfe \nwas drafted and both my parents served in the military I didn’t \nappreciate the “killing babies in Asia” line even if it was a joke ... \na bit tone deaf.\n\nhttps://newpoplitinteractive.wordpress.com/\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2017-11-17T14:57:22+00:00", "subject": "(urth) tongue in cheek (?) wolfe profile", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think it is supposed to be a joke, but damn it just isn’t funny. Sorry to\npoint your attention to something so frustrating ..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Friday, November 17, 2017, Eric Bourland wrote:\nYou know, I just wasted ten minutes of my morning to scold this young man\nin the comments. I do not know if my comment will persist. I might have\ngotten a little hot under the collar myself.\n\nFriend,\n\nWolfe was drafted in his early twenties and sent to war. If you read his\nLetters Home, you will learn more about that: a collection of loving,\nreassuring letters that he wrote to his worried mother while he was\nstationed in Korea. He was barely twenty-one or twenty-two. He's not\nfascist in the slightest and not even particularly conservative; his\nreflections, in books like Peace or Free Live Free, on the nation of\nAmerica are loving of America and its people and the people of the world.\nIf anything, he laments the foolishness of politicians. In books like Home\nFires and A Borrowed Man, you can tell he has put a great deal of thought,\nand a lot of reading, into the results of fascism, nationalism, populism,\ncapitalism. It might come off as small-minded to bring up his very early\nwork in the 1960s; it's not fair or advisable to judge the tone or\nintention of a writer by his juvenalia. He was drafted by the\nmilitary-industrial complex of America and sent to war. He shot at people\nwho were shooting at him, and none of them, I imagine, wanted to be there.\nI am not trying to offend you, but the sarcastic tone of your text comes\nacross as anger, rather than an appreciation. You mostly just sound angry.\nIt's OK to be angry, but I don't know if it's useful to take it out on Gene\nWolfe. Yours,\n\nEric Bourland\n\nOn 11/17/2017 8:47 AM, Marc Aramini wrote:\n\nHere is a kind of strange profile of wolfe at the top ... I suppose it is\nsupposed to be a little tongue in cheek but considering that Wolfe was\ndrafted and both my parents served in the military I didn’t appreciate the\n“killing babies in Asia” line even if it was a joke ... a bit tone deaf.\n\nhttps://newpoplitinteractive.wordpress.com/\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1319fbdd-a098-b171-410f-a9606bc8cead@hwaet.com>", "from": { "name": "Eric Bourland", "address": "eb at hwaet.com" }, "date": "2017-11-17T15:00:23+00:00", "subject": "(urth) tongue in cheek (?) wolfe profile", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yeah. It's not slightly funny. The kid is just angry. I'll turn him over \nmy knee. ;-)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 11/17/2017 9:57 AM, Marc Aramini wrote:\nI think it is supposed to be a joke, but damn it just isn’t funny. \nSorry to point your attention to something so frustrating ...\n\nOn Friday, November 17, 2017, Eric Bourland > wrote:\n\n You know, I just wasted ten minutes of my morning to scold this\n young man in the comments. I do not know if my comment will\n persist. I might have gotten a little hot under the collar myself.\n\n Friend,\n\n Wolfe was drafted in his early twenties and sent to war. If you\n read his Letters Home, you will learn more about that: a\n collection of loving, reassuring letters that he wrote to his\n worried mother while he was stationed in Korea. He was barely\n twenty-one or twenty-two. He's not fascist in the slightest and\n not even particularly conservative; his reflections, in books like\n Peace or Free Live Free, on the nation of America are loving of\n America and its people and the people of the world. If anything,\n he laments the foolishness of politicians. In books like Home\n Fires and A Borrowed Man, you can tell he has put a great deal of\n thought, and a lot of reading, into the results of fascism,\n nationalism, populism, capitalism. It might come off as\n small-minded to bring up his very early work in the 1960s; it's\n not fair or advisable to judge the tone or intention of a writer\n by his juvenalia. He was drafted by the military-industrial\n complex of America and sent to war. He shot at people who were\n shooting at him, and none of them, I imagine, wanted to be there.\n I am not trying to offend you, but the sarcastic tone of your text\n comes across as anger, rather than an appreciation. You mostly\n just sound angry. It's OK to be angry, but I don't know if it's\n useful to take it out on Gene Wolfe. Yours,\n\n Eric Bourland\n\n\n On 11/17/2017 8:47 AM, Marc Aramini wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": " Here is a kind of strange profile of wolfe at the top?... I\n suppose it is supposed to be a little tongue in cheek but\n considering that Wolfe was drafted and both my parents served in\n the military I didn’t appreciate the “killing babies in Asia”\n line even if it was a joke ... a bit tone deaf.\n\n https://newpoplitinteractive.wordpress.com/\n \n\n\n _______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Ab de Vos", "address": "foxyab at casema.nl" }, "date": "2017-11-17T17:22:28+00:00", "subject": "(urth) tongue in cheek (?) wolfe profile", "in_reply_to": "<1319fbdd-a098-b171-410f-a9606bc8cead@hwaet.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Don't forget the plastic gloves.\n\n\nOp 17-11-2017 om 16:00 schreef Eric Bourland:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Yeah. It's not slightly funny. The kid is just angry. I'll turn him \nover my knee. ;-)\n\n\nOn 11/17/2017 9:57 AM, Marc Aramini wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I think it is supposed to be a joke, but damn it just isn’t funny. \nSorry to point your attention to something so frustrating ...\n\nOn Friday, November 17, 2017, Eric Bourland > wrote:\n\n You know, I just wasted ten minutes of my morning to scold this\n young man in the comments. I do not know if my comment will\n persist. I might have gotten a little hot under the collar myself.\n\n Friend,\n\n Wolfe was drafted in his early twenties and sent to war. If you\n read his Letters Home, you will learn more about that: a\n collection of loving, reassuring letters that he wrote to his\n worried mother while he was stationed in Korea. He was barely\n twenty-one or twenty-two. He's not fascist in the slightest and\n not even particularly conservative; his reflections, in books\n like Peace or Free Live Free, on the nation of America are loving\n of America and its people and the people of the world. If\n anything, he laments the foolishness of politicians. In books\n like Home Fires and A Borrowed Man, you can tell he has put a\n great deal of thought, and a lot of reading, into the results of\n fascism, nationalism, populism, capitalism. It might come off as\n small-minded to bring up his very early work in the 1960s; it's\n not fair or advisable to judge the tone or intention of a writer\n by his juvenalia. He was drafted by the military-industrial\n complex of America and sent to war. He shot at people who were\n shooting at him, and none of them, I imagine, wanted to be there.\n I am not trying to offend you, but the sarcastic tone of your\n text comes across as anger, rather than an appreciation. You\n mostly just sound angry. It's OK to be angry, but I don't know if\n it's useful to take it out on Gene Wolfe. Yours,\n\n Eric Bourland\n\n\n On 11/17/2017 8:47 AM, Marc Aramini wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": " Here is a kind of strange profile of wolfe at the top?... I\n suppose it is supposed to be a little tongue in cheek but\n considering that Wolfe was drafted and both my parents served in\n the military I didn’t appreciate the “killing babies in Asia”\n line even if it was a joke ... a bit tone deaf.\n\n https://newpoplitinteractive.wordpress.com/\n \n\n\n _______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Matthew Keeley", "address": "matthew.keeley.1 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2017-11-18T00:42:59+00:00", "subject": "(urth) tongue in cheek (?) wolfe profile", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I know many of you have seen this already, but I've written two posts on\nWolfe for Tor.com, with more to come soon:\nhttps://www.tor.com/2017/10/16/approaching-gene-wolfe-with-awe-and-trepidation/\n\nhttps://www.tor.com/2017/11/09/how-gene-wolfe-starts-a-story-and-where-to-start-reading-his-work/\n\nAt no point in the writing did my tongue approach my cheek.\n\nBest,\n\n-Matt" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 12:22 PM, Ab de Vos wrote:\nDon't forget the plastic gloves.\n\nOp 17-11-2017 om 16:00 schreef Eric Bourland:\n\nYeah. It's not slightly funny. The kid is just angry. I'll turn him over\nmy knee. ;-)\n\nOn 11/17/2017 9:57 AM, Marc Aramini wrote:\n\nI think it is supposed to be a joke, but damn it just isn’t funny. Sorry\nto point your attention to something so frustrating ...\n\nOn Friday, November 17, 2017, Eric Bourland wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "You know, I just wasted ten minutes of my morning to scold this young man\nin the comments. I do not know if my comment will persist. I might have\ngotten a little hot under the collar myself.\n\nFriend,\n\nWolfe was drafted in his early twenties and sent to war. If you read his\nLetters Home, you will learn more about that: a collection of loving,\nreassuring letters that he wrote to his worried mother while he was\nstationed in Korea. He was barely twenty-one or twenty-two. He's not\nfascist in the slightest and not even particularly conservative; his\nreflections, in books like Peace or Free Live Free, on the nation of\nAmerica are loving of America and its people and the people of the world.\nIf anything, he laments the foolishness of politicians. In books like Home\nFires and A Borrowed Man, you can tell he has put a great deal of thought,\nand a lot of reading, into the results of fascism, nationalism, populism,\ncapitalism. It might come off as small-minded to bring up his very early\nwork in the 1960s; it's not fair or advisable to judge the tone or\nintention of a writer by his juvenalia. He was drafted by the\nmilitary-industrial complex of America and sent to war. He shot at people\nwho were shooting at him, and none of them, I imagine, wanted to be there.\nI am not trying to offend you, but the sarcastic tone of your text comes\nacross as anger, rather than an appreciation. You mostly just sound angry.\nIt's OK to be angry, but I don't know if it's useful to take it out on Gene\nWolfe. Yours,\n\nEric Bourland\n\nOn 11/17/2017 8:47 AM, Marc Aramini wrote:\n\nHere is a kind of strange profile of wolfe at the top ... I suppose it is\nsupposed to be a little tongue in cheek but considering that Wolfe was\ndrafted and both my parents served in the military I didn’t appreciate the\n“killing babies in Asia” line even if it was a joke ... a bit tone deaf.\n\nhttps://newpoplitinteractive.wordpress.com/\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<61B3689B-6F02-493A-984F-EC5CF338B47C@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2017-11-18T12:16:18+00:00", "subject": "(urth) tongue in cheek (?) wolfe profile", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yeah, I appreciate the hyperbolic Wolfe as human wolf angle, and the closing is spot on, but much of the roasting is simply too inaccurate to be humorous. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On November 17, 2017 9:57:20 AM EST, Marc Aramini wrote:\nI think it is supposed to be a joke, but damn it just isn’t funny.\nSorry to\npoint your attention to something so frustrating ...\n\nOn Friday, November 17, 2017, Eric Bourland wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "You know, I just wasted ten minutes of my morning to scold this young\nman\nin the comments. I do not know if my comment will persist. I might\nhave\ngotten a little hot under the collar myself.\n\nFriend,\n\nWolfe was drafted in his early twenties and sent to war. If you read\nhis\nLetters Home, you will learn more about that: a collection of loving,\nreassuring letters that he wrote to his worried mother while he was\nstationed in Korea. He was barely twenty-one or twenty-two. He's not\nfascist in the slightest and not even particularly conservative; his\nreflections, in books like Peace or Free Live Free, on the nation of\nAmerica are loving of America and its people and the people of the\nworld.\nIf anything, he laments the foolishness of politicians. In books like\nHome\nFires and A Borrowed Man, you can tell he has put a great deal of\nthought,\nand a lot of reading, into the results of fascism, nationalism,\npopulism,\ncapitalism. It might come off as small-minded to bring up his very\nearly\nwork in the 1960s; it's not fair or advisable to judge the tone or\nintention of a writer by his juvenalia. He was drafted by the\nmilitary-industrial complex of America and sent to war. He shot at\npeople\nwho were shooting at him, and none of them, I imagine, wanted to be\nthere.\nI am not trying to offend you, but the sarcastic tone of your text\ncomes\nacross as anger, rather than an appreciation. You mostly just sound\nangry.\nIt's OK to be angry, but I don't know if it's useful to take it out\non Gene\nWolfe. Yours,\n\nEric Bourland\n\nOn 11/17/2017 8:47 AM, Marc Aramini wrote:\n\nHere is a kind of strange profile of wolfe at the top ... I suppose\nit is\nsupposed to be a little tongue in cheek but considering that Wolfe\nwas\ndrafted and both my parents served in the military I didn’t\nappreciate the\n“killing babies in Asia” line even if it was a joke ... a bit tone\ndeaf.\n\nhttps://newpoplitinteractive.wordpress.com/\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] } ] }