tongue in cheek (?) wolfe profile The Urth list — 7 messages, 5 voices, 17 Nov 2017 https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6766 Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. ============================================================================== Marc Aramini — 17 Nov 2017, 13:47 Here is a kind of strange profile of wolfe at the top ... I suppose it is supposed to be a little tongue in cheek but considering that Wolfe was drafted and both my parents served in the military I didn’t appreciate the “killing babies in Asia” line even if it was a joke ... a bit tone deaf. https://newpoplitinteractive.wordpress.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Bourland — 17 Nov 2017, 14:46 in reply to Marc Aramini You know, I just wasted ten minutes of my morning to scold this young man in the comments. I do not know if my comment will persist. I might have gotten a little hot under the collar myself. Friend, Wolfe was drafted in his early twenties and sent to war. If you read his Letters Home, you will learn more about that: a collection of loving, reassuring letters that he wrote to his worried mother while he was stationed in Korea. He was barely twenty-one or twenty-two. He's not fascist in the slightest and not even particularly conservative; his reflections, in books like Peace or Free Live Free, on the nation of America are loving of America and its people and the people of the world. If anything, he laments the foolishness of politicians. In books like Home Fires and A Borrowed Man, you can tell he has put a great deal of thought, and a lot of reading, into the results of fascism, nationalism, populism, capitalism. It might come off as small-minded to bring up his very early work in the 1960s; it's not fair or advisable to judge the tone or intention of a writer by his juvenalia. He was drafted by the military-industrial complex of America and sent to war. He shot at people who were shooting at him, and none of them, I imagine, wanted to be there. I am not trying to offend you, but the sarcastic tone of your text comes across as anger, rather than an appreciation. You mostly just sound angry. It's OK to be angry, but I don't know if it's useful to take it out on Gene Wolfe. Yours, Eric Bourland > On 11/17/2017 8:47 AM, Marc Aramini wrote: > Here is a kind of strange profile of wolfe at the top?... I suppose it > is supposed to be a little tongue in cheek but considering that Wolfe > was drafted and both my parents served in the military I didn’t > appreciate the “killing babies in Asia” line even if it was a joke ... > a bit tone deaf. > > https://newpoplitinteractive.wordpress.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Marc Aramini — 17 Nov 2017, 14:57 in reply to Eric Bourland I think it is supposed to be a joke, but damn it just isn’t funny. Sorry to point your attention to something so frustrating ... > On Friday, November 17, 2017, Eric Bourland wrote: > You know, I just wasted ten minutes of my morning to scold this young man > in the comments. I do not know if my comment will persist. I might have > gotten a little hot under the collar myself. > > Friend, > > Wolfe was drafted in his early twenties and sent to war. If you read his > Letters Home, you will learn more about that: a collection of loving, > reassuring letters that he wrote to his worried mother while he was > stationed in Korea. He was barely twenty-one or twenty-two. He's not > fascist in the slightest and not even particularly conservative; his > reflections, in books like Peace or Free Live Free, on the nation of > America are loving of America and its people and the people of the world. > If anything, he laments the foolishness of politicians. In books like Home > Fires and A Borrowed Man, you can tell he has put a great deal of thought, > and a lot of reading, into the results of fascism, nationalism, populism, > capitalism. It might come off as small-minded to bring up his very early > work in the 1960s; it's not fair or advisable to judge the tone or > intention of a writer by his juvenalia. He was drafted by the > military-industrial complex of America and sent to war. He shot at people > who were shooting at him, and none of them, I imagine, wanted to be there. > I am not trying to offend you, but the sarcastic tone of your text comes > across as anger, rather than an appreciation. You mostly just sound angry. > It's OK to be angry, but I don't know if it's useful to take it out on Gene > Wolfe. Yours, > > Eric Bourland > > On 11/17/2017 8:47 AM, Marc Aramini wrote: > > Here is a kind of strange profile of wolfe at the top ... I suppose it is > supposed to be a little tongue in cheek but considering that Wolfe was > drafted and both my parents served in the military I didn’t appreciate the > “killing babies in Asia” line even if it was a joke ... a bit tone deaf. > > https://newpoplitinteractive.wordpress.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Bourland — 17 Nov 2017, 15:00 in reply to Marc Aramini Yeah. It's not slightly funny. The kid is just angry. I'll turn him over my knee. ;-) > On 11/17/2017 9:57 AM, Marc Aramini wrote: > I think it is supposed to be a joke, but damn it just isn’t funny. > Sorry to point your attention to something so frustrating ... > > On Friday, November 17, 2017, Eric Bourland > wrote: > > You know, I just wasted ten minutes of my morning to scold this > young man in the comments. I do not know if my comment will > persist. I might have gotten a little hot under the collar myself. > > Friend, > > Wolfe was drafted in his early twenties and sent to war. If you > read his Letters Home, you will learn more about that: a > collection of loving, reassuring letters that he wrote to his > worried mother while he was stationed in Korea. He was barely > twenty-one or twenty-two. He's not fascist in the slightest and > not even particularly conservative; his reflections, in books like > Peace or Free Live Free, on the nation of America are loving of > America and its people and the people of the world. If anything, > he laments the foolishness of politicians. In books like Home > Fires and A Borrowed Man, you can tell he has put a great deal of > thought, and a lot of reading, into the results of fascism, > nationalism, populism, capitalism. It might come off as > small-minded to bring up his very early work in the 1960s; it's > not fair or advisable to judge the tone or intention of a writer > by his juvenalia. He was drafted by the military-industrial > complex of America and sent to war. He shot at people who were > shooting at him, and none of them, I imagine, wanted to be there. > I am not trying to offend you, but the sarcastic tone of your text > comes across as anger, rather than an appreciation. You mostly > just sound angry. It's OK to be angry, but I don't know if it's > useful to take it out on Gene Wolfe. Yours, > > Eric Bourland > > > On 11/17/2017 8:47 AM, Marc Aramini wrote: > > Here is a kind of strange profile of wolfe at the top?... I > > suppose it is supposed to be a little tongue in cheek but > > considering that Wolfe was drafted and both my parents served in > > the military I didn’t appreciate the “killing babies in Asia” > > line even if it was a joke ... a bit tone deaf. > > > > https://newpoplitinteractive.wordpress.com/ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ab de Vos — 17 Nov 2017, 17:22 in reply to Eric Bourland Don't forget the plastic gloves. Op 17-11-2017 om 16:00 schreef Eric Bourland: > Yeah. It's not slightly funny. The kid is just angry. I'll turn him > over my knee. ;-) > > > On 11/17/2017 9:57 AM, Marc Aramini wrote: > > I think it is supposed to be a joke, but damn it just isn’t funny. > > Sorry to point your attention to something so frustrating ... > > > > On Friday, November 17, 2017, Eric Bourland > > wrote: > > > > You know, I just wasted ten minutes of my morning to scold this > > young man in the comments. I do not know if my comment will > > persist. I might have gotten a little hot under the collar myself. > > > > Friend, > > > > Wolfe was drafted in his early twenties and sent to war. If you > > read his Letters Home, you will learn more about that: a > > collection of loving, reassuring letters that he wrote to his > > worried mother while he was stationed in Korea. He was barely > > twenty-one or twenty-two. He's not fascist in the slightest and > > not even particularly conservative; his reflections, in books > > like Peace or Free Live Free, on the nation of America are loving > > of America and its people and the people of the world. If > > anything, he laments the foolishness of politicians. In books > > like Home Fires and A Borrowed Man, you can tell he has put a > > great deal of thought, and a lot of reading, into the results of > > fascism, nationalism, populism, capitalism. It might come off as > > small-minded to bring up his very early work in the 1960s; it's > > not fair or advisable to judge the tone or intention of a writer > > by his juvenalia. He was drafted by the military-industrial > > complex of America and sent to war. He shot at people who were > > shooting at him, and none of them, I imagine, wanted to be there. > > I am not trying to offend you, but the sarcastic tone of your > > text comes across as anger, rather than an appreciation. You > > mostly just sound angry. It's OK to be angry, but I don't know if > > it's useful to take it out on Gene Wolfe. Yours, > > > > Eric Bourland > > > > > > On 11/17/2017 8:47 AM, Marc Aramini wrote: > > > Here is a kind of strange profile of wolfe at the top?... I > > > suppose it is supposed to be a little tongue in cheek but > > > considering that Wolfe was drafted and both my parents served in > > > the military I didn’t appreciate the “killing babies in Asia” > > > line even if it was a joke ... a bit tone deaf. > > > > > > https://newpoplitinteractive.wordpress.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Matthew Keeley — 18 Nov 2017, 00:42 in reply to Ab de Vos I know many of you have seen this already, but I've written two posts on Wolfe for Tor.com, with more to come soon: https://www.tor.com/2017/10/16/approaching-gene-wolfe-with-awe-and-trepidation/ https://www.tor.com/2017/11/09/how-gene-wolfe-starts-a-story-and-where-to-start-reading-his-work/ At no point in the writing did my tongue approach my cheek. Best, -Matt > On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 12:22 PM, Ab de Vos wrote: > Don't forget the plastic gloves. > > Op 17-11-2017 om 16:00 schreef Eric Bourland: > > Yeah. It's not slightly funny. The kid is just angry. I'll turn him over > my knee. ;-) > > On 11/17/2017 9:57 AM, Marc Aramini wrote: > > I think it is supposed to be a joke, but damn it just isn’t funny. Sorry > to point your attention to something so frustrating ... > > On Friday, November 17, 2017, Eric Bourland wrote: > > You know, I just wasted ten minutes of my morning to scold this young man > > in the comments. I do not know if my comment will persist. I might have > > gotten a little hot under the collar myself. > > > > Friend, > > > > Wolfe was drafted in his early twenties and sent to war. If you read his > > Letters Home, you will learn more about that: a collection of loving, > > reassuring letters that he wrote to his worried mother while he was > > stationed in Korea. He was barely twenty-one or twenty-two. He's not > > fascist in the slightest and not even particularly conservative; his > > reflections, in books like Peace or Free Live Free, on the nation of > > America are loving of America and its people and the people of the world. > > If anything, he laments the foolishness of politicians. In books like Home > > Fires and A Borrowed Man, you can tell he has put a great deal of thought, > > and a lot of reading, into the results of fascism, nationalism, populism, > > capitalism. It might come off as small-minded to bring up his very early > > work in the 1960s; it's not fair or advisable to judge the tone or > > intention of a writer by his juvenalia. He was drafted by the > > military-industrial complex of America and sent to war. He shot at people > > who were shooting at him, and none of them, I imagine, wanted to be there. > > I am not trying to offend you, but the sarcastic tone of your text comes > > across as anger, rather than an appreciation. You mostly just sound angry. > > It's OK to be angry, but I don't know if it's useful to take it out on Gene > > Wolfe. Yours, > > > > Eric Bourland > > > > On 11/17/2017 8:47 AM, Marc Aramini wrote: > > > > Here is a kind of strange profile of wolfe at the top ... I suppose it is > > supposed to be a little tongue in cheek but considering that Wolfe was > > drafted and both my parents served in the military I didn’t appreciate the > > “killing babies in Asia” line even if it was a joke ... a bit tone deaf. > > > > https://newpoplitinteractive.wordpress.com/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ David Stockhoff — 18 Nov 2017, 12:16 in reply to Marc Aramini Yeah, I appreciate the hyperbolic Wolfe as human wolf angle, and the closing is spot on, but much of the roasting is simply too inaccurate to be humorous. > On November 17, 2017 9:57:20 AM EST, Marc Aramini wrote: > I think it is supposed to be a joke, but damn it just isn’t funny. > Sorry to > point your attention to something so frustrating ... > > On Friday, November 17, 2017, Eric Bourland wrote: > > You know, I just wasted ten minutes of my morning to scold this young > > man > > in the comments. I do not know if my comment will persist. I might > > have > > gotten a little hot under the collar myself. > > > > Friend, > > > > Wolfe was drafted in his early twenties and sent to war. If you read > > his > > Letters Home, you will learn more about that: a collection of loving, > > reassuring letters that he wrote to his worried mother while he was > > stationed in Korea. He was barely twenty-one or twenty-two. He's not > > fascist in the slightest and not even particularly conservative; his > > reflections, in books like Peace or Free Live Free, on the nation of > > America are loving of America and its people and the people of the > > world. > > If anything, he laments the foolishness of politicians. In books like > > Home > > Fires and A Borrowed Man, you can tell he has put a great deal of > > thought, > > and a lot of reading, into the results of fascism, nationalism, > > populism, > > capitalism. It might come off as small-minded to bring up his very > > early > > work in the 1960s; it's not fair or advisable to judge the tone or > > intention of a writer by his juvenalia. He was drafted by the > > military-industrial complex of America and sent to war. He shot at > > people > > who were shooting at him, and none of them, I imagine, wanted to be > > there. > > I am not trying to offend you, but the sarcastic tone of your text > > comes > > across as anger, rather than an appreciation. You mostly just sound > > angry. > > It's OK to be angry, but I don't know if it's useful to take it out > > on Gene > > Wolfe. Yours, > > > > Eric Bourland > > > > On 11/17/2017 8:47 AM, Marc Aramini wrote: > > > > Here is a kind of strange profile of wolfe at the top ... I suppose > > it is > > supposed to be a little tongue in cheek but considering that Wolfe > > was > > drafted and both my parents served in the military I didn’t > > appreciate the > > “killing babies in Asia” line even if it was a joke ... a bit tone > > deaf. > > > > https://newpoplitinteractive.wordpress.com/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------