{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/678", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 678, "subject": "Pink Lady's Age; VRT's Mother", "messages": 1, "voices": 1, "first": "1998-05-28T02:28:51+00:00", "last": "1998-05-28T02:28:51+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Robert Borski", "address": "rborski at coredcs.com" }, "date": "1998-05-28T02:28:51+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Re: Pink Lady's Age; VRT's Mother", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Tony Ellis has written about my lady in pink theory:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "surely Mlle Etienne is too young to be David's mother. Marsch judges her\nto be 27 or\n28; Gene he judged to be 18, and David is at least as old as his\n\"brother\". Mlle Etienne would have been about 10 when David was born!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm not sure I necessarily agree with several of your points. At least I'm\ngoing to argue that way.\n\nThe difference in David's and Gene's ages is never stated, but Gene has no\ndifficulty accepting the notion that he is older when he is told he is\ngoing to be made heir. They _appear_ to be about the same age, but at the\nsame time Gene has suffered more physically from the pharmacological abuse\nwreaked upon by him by Maitre, perhaps delaying puberty. Children also\nmature at different rates, both mentally and physically; when I was a youth\na million years ago, many of my same-aged friends started shaving _years_\nbefore me, and unlike other of my friends who performed recitals in\nelementary school I still can't play the piano (and not for lack of trying)\nor write a poem.\n\nThe years on Sainte Croix are also longer by 42 extra days, which means\nthat 28 would correspond to nearly 31. Marsch is a highly unreliable\nnarrator as well (\"I want my mommy\"), thinking most Croixians look alike,\nand is too thoroughly libidinized to accurately judge a pretty woman's age.\nConsider his prison thoughts about why men desire the women they do, and\nfor all we know he may have barely glanced at Celestine's face--the best\nindicator of age, although in a skilled prostitute, even this might be\ndifficult to ascertain--ever see your wife/girlfriend without makeup? (The\nMarsch were talking about here is actually VRT, but the original Marsch\nhimself had trouble assigning ages, thinking first Victor looked 15 or 16,\nthen a few pages later stating he thought he looked \"at least seventeen.\")\nAlso to be considered is the rough nature of life on a planet such as\nSainte Croix, where people are much likelier to reproduce earlier, and the\nfact that there would be few prohibitions in a society that allowed slavery\nand child-brokering against child prostitution (cf. PRETTY BABY or the\nproblem with sexual exploitation of children in countries like Thailand).\nBesides that, given Wolfe's extensive vocabulary and all the colors in the\nrainbow, why would Wolfe, a writer of enormous subtlety and diligence, give\nCelestine Etienne a plain pink dress? I also maintain the eye color link is\nvalid--why not make her eyes hazel or grey? And I disagree with your\nlankiness point: Wolfe describes Celestine in almost _exactly_ the same\nterms as the demimondaines of Cerberus House. But for another take on the\nlady in pink, see my soon-to-be-announced CAVE CANEM, where I theorize\nNerissa may have been the original lady-in-pink." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Now have a crack at my theory, Robert. I say that we meet - well, almost\nmeet - VRT's mother. She's the prisoner in the next cell." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This is an interesting theory and one I've never considered before, but I'd\nlike to see something that supports it from text. If true, it would be\nhighly ironic, but also highly coincidental. (Why would VRT's mere come to\nPort-Mimizon and not go to the Capital or somewhere else? Why would her\narrest take so long {she's apparently been gone at least three years\nminimum from Sainte Anne, and probably much longer, maybe even as long as\n6, 7 years}? Why hasn't she used her famed \"acting\" ability to appear\nyounger or more beautiful, and thereby snared a decent beau by now? How is\nit she's arrested and jailed in a prison that mainly seems to confine\npolitical prisoners and is placed with access to her son, a suspected\nspy/murderer? {Myself, I think she's a plant, hoping to ensnare VRT's\nconfidences.} Why would the military government of Sainte Croix even waste\ntime arresting mendicants as opposed to letting them fester in the streets\nor disappearing them? {Amnesty Interplanetary would have a field day on\nSainte Croix.} Is it even likely she's on Sainte Croix--despite her wishes\nto go there what resources did she have, and wouldn't these same resources,\nif they were personal or sexual, avail her after she arrived?{ I also\nmaintain she'd be the first abo ever to make such a journey.}) I think the\nodds are astronomical against what you propose--but if you are right, and\nyou might be, I'd like to see something that supports it other than the\nneatness of the idea. In other words, gospel, chapter and verse from the\ntext itself, with maybe a little sound exegesis.\n\nMy theories about VRT's mother are less extensive, and come from my own\nCAVE CANEM, which I'm almost finished with and will probably be announcing\nin my next post. To wit: \n\nThree Faces in a tale told by VRT imitating Dr. Hagsmith, an abo woman\nwho paints in clay yes! and no! faces on her right and left breasts,\nrespectively. She sleeps with a cattle-drover, and the faces transfer via\nbody heat to the drover, but are reversed. The abo woman rejects the\ndrover's love and flees, but the drover has the faces tattooed over, so\nhe'll keep them forever (III, 225).\nCommentary: Three Faces may be the true name of VRT's absentee abo mother.\nVictor calls her \"a fine actress,\" but his father has been prostituting\nher. As a shape-changer, with the ability to change her appearance (Victor\nsays she could look like a young girl or an old woman if she wanted), she\nwould be appositely named as Three Faces. We never learn her fatal fate,\nthough Victor believes she migrated to Sainte Croix and goes looking for\nher there.\n\nRobert Borski " } ] } ] }