{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6786", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 6786, "subject": "letter associations in Wizard Knight", "messages": 3, "voices": 1, "first": "2018-03-29T13:00:10+00:00", "last": "2018-03-29T13:31:58+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2018-03-29T13:00:10+00:00", "subject": "(urth) letter associations in Wizard Knight", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I am still working on the Wizard Knight writeup because I am striving for\nthe optimum organization in order to be as convincing as possible. I will\nset this up far more carefully in the writeup.\n\nThough I strongly dislike when Borski collapses many characters into Inire\nat great length in his analysis of New Sun, I feel this is unavoidable in\nWizard Knight due to the letter associations - O signifies the same threat\nof strangulation and starvation whether it is the helpless manifestation of\nthe baby Ossar, the cannibalistic attacks of the Osterlings, or the\nstrangling hands of Org. The question is whether Org is Able (Arthur's) or\nBold (Ben's) defense mechanism, contra Gylf (G) (Able will \"die\" and ascend\nto Skai (S) on the back of the Griffin (G))\n\nAt the start when Able (A) comes to the Griffin (G) (and he and Bold (B)\nwill eventually sit together on its banks), he talks to some fishermen like\nScaur (S) about ghost stories and planting his seed. Oesterlings (O) have\nrazed Bluestone (B) castle. You can put the letters in from here.\n\nSchildstarr attacks Glennidam when Bold loses his shadow; when Org comes to\nSheerwall, Master Thope is stabbed. Schildstarr and Thiazi form an alliance\nafter Gilling is injured, but Svon and Toug fight. Org strangles, but Able\ngives the starving child Ossar to the aelf and receives Gylf in exchange\n(as he himself starves in that scene). Later, Svon and Toug will discuss\nhow each of them have a monster (through Svon's broken nose) - these\nmonsters are of course Org and Gylf. Garsecg is Setr, Arnthor's brother. S\nand T are extensions of the A and B brother cognate, with their aggressive\ndefense mechanisms attacking each other as O and G. This even works in Skai\n(S) when Able fights the Giants (G) of Winter and Old Knight - he even\ncomes to Modgud, (Mag, Mom, etc) whose womb gestates for a thousand years\n(!!!) to face her in her immensity, becoming the Green Knight for a time\nwhen his head is cut off (see where I am going with that?). We have a two\nheaded turtle, a two headed giant, and, in the talk of Bold Berthed, the\ngirl Skjena has six fingers - abnormal growths.\n\nThe question is whether Tough or Svon corresponds with Able or Bold, the\ntwins who will be reconciled into one individual on the final pages and\nbecome a chimeric individual (Bold survives and vanquishes Schildstarr in\nthe sky). Gilling, Gylf, Garsecg and even Garvaon are all manifestations of\nthe same aspect of Able's subconscious, some kind, some brutal, but do they\nrepresent the other/brother or himself? judging from the defeat of\nSchidlstarr and the orders of S and T compared to A and B ... should Svon\nlinked to Able and Toug to Bold? Svon and Toug have different monsters in\nthat battle scene because they perceive the threat of the other child,\ntaking resources, in different ways.\n\n(I set this up by looking at the dreams in conjunction first in the writeup\nand going into the mythological background quite a bit - hopefully I can\nfinish it soon. Almost every scene keeps repeating the same patterns, even\nHuld's ghostly warning - you fear the sister - fear the brother.)\n\nWhen Bold discusses how Able would have run when Schildstarr attacked, Able\nsays, no I wouldn't - you didn't, aren't we the same? (near this scene he\nsees two spiny orange trees - one cut down and another grown - this doesn't\nmake sense on the plot level, but it does make sense metaphorically.) When\nAble comes to mythgarthr, he has struggles with both young Toug (who tries\nto take his bow) and young Svon, Svon, too, says that he has been harassed\nby the aelf at the camp. At this point those struggles should probably be\nconsidered internal in nature. So while all of these will eventually\ncollapse into the surviving Bold/Ben character thanks to Able's sacrifice\n... is Able related to Svon or is Bold? Sounds ridiculous, I know. The\ngoose that arnthor splits in two at the feast is stuffed with all kinds of\nother birds inside it, and that's what we have in this story." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2018-03-29T13:18:39+00:00", "subject": "(urth) letter associations in Wizard Knight", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "oh yeah - the name of the two headed giant - orgalmir and borgalmir (O and\nB), whom Able jokingly suggests killed Gilling (when Toug (I think - need\nto check and make sure it isn't Svon) sees Gilling fall, it is preceded by\nOrg strangling another giant in a surreal juxtaposition, almost as if Org\nis strangling Gilling (of course he really is - all the parties, including\nthe red blood cells Uri and Baki (who have no soul/nucleus of their own,\ncopied from Kulili's threads (DNA)) so all the stories of Gilling's death\nare true at the same time, though for the plot Garvaon did it for love. (G\nkilling G, taming Gylf; sacrifice)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 6:00 AM, Marc Aramini wrote:\nI am still working on the Wizard Knight writeup because I am striving for\nthe optimum organization in order to be as convincing as possible. I will\nset this up far more carefully in the writeup.\n\nThough I strongly dislike when Borski collapses many characters into Inire\nat great length in his analysis of New Sun, I feel this is unavoidable in\nWizard Knight due to the letter associations - O signifies the same threat\nof strangulation and starvation whether it is the helpless manifestation of\nthe baby Ossar, the cannibalistic attacks of the Osterlings, or the\nstrangling hands of Org. The question is whether Org is Able (Arthur's) or\nBold (Ben's) defense mechanism, contra Gylf (G) (Able will \"die\" and ascend\nto Skai (S) on the back of the Griffin (G))\n\nAt the start when Able (A) comes to the Griffin (G) (and he and Bold (B)\nwill eventually sit together on its banks), he talks to some fishermen like\nScaur (S) about ghost stories and planting his seed. Oesterlings (O) have\nrazed Bluestone (B) castle. You can put the letters in from here.\n\nSchildstarr attacks Glennidam when Bold loses his shadow; when Org comes\nto Sheerwall, Master Thope is stabbed. Schildstarr and Thiazi form an\nalliance after Gilling is injured, but Svon and Toug fight. Org strangles,\nbut Able gives the starving child Ossar to the aelf and receives Gylf in\nexchange (as he himself starves in that scene). Later, Svon and Toug will\ndiscuss how each of them have a monster (through Svon's broken nose) -\nthese monsters are of course Org and Gylf. Garsecg is Setr, Arnthor's\nbrother. S and T are extensions of the A and B brother cognate, with their\naggressive defense mechanisms attacking each other as O and G. This even\nworks in Skai (S) when Able fights the Giants (G) of Winter and Old Knight\n- he even comes to Modgud, (Mag, Mom, etc) whose womb gestates for a\nthousand years (!!!) to face her in her immensity, becoming the Green\nKnight for a time when his head is cut off (see where I am going with\nthat?). We have a two headed turtle, a two headed giant, and, in the talk\nof Bold Berthed, the girl Skjena has six fingers - abnormal growths.\n\nThe question is whether Tough or Svon corresponds with Able or Bold, the\ntwins who will be reconciled into one individual on the final pages and\nbecome a chimeric individual (Bold survives and vanquishes Schildstarr in\nthe sky). Gilling, Gylf, Garsecg and even Garvaon are all manifestations of\nthe same aspect of Able's subconscious, some kind, some brutal, but do they\nrepresent the other/brother or himself? judging from the defeat of\nSchidlstarr and the orders of S and T compared to A and B ... should Svon\nlinked to Able and Toug to Bold? Svon and Toug have different monsters in\nthat battle scene because they perceive the threat of the other child,\ntaking resources, in different ways.\n\n(I set this up by looking at the dreams in conjunction first in the\nwriteup and going into the mythological background quite a bit - hopefully\nI can finish it soon. Almost every scene keeps repeating the same patterns,\neven Huld's ghostly warning - you fear the sister - fear the brother.)\n\nWhen Bold discusses how Able would have run when Schildstarr attacked,\nAble says, no I wouldn't - you didn't, aren't we the same? (near this\nscene he sees two spiny orange trees - one cut down and another grown -\nthis doesn't make sense on the plot level, but it does make sense\nmetaphorically.) When Able comes to mythgarthr, he has struggles with both\nyoung Toug (who tries to take his bow) and young Svon, Svon, too, says that\nhe has been harassed by the aelf at the camp. At this point those struggles\nshould probably be considered internal in nature. So while all of these\nwill eventually collapse into the surviving Bold/Ben character thanks to\nAble's sacrifice ... is Able related to Svon or is Bold? Sounds ridiculous,\nI know. The goose that arnthor splits in two at the feast is stuffed with\nall kinds of other birds inside it, and that's what we have in this story." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2018-03-29T13:31:58+00:00", "subject": "(urth) letter associations in Wizard Knight", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The memories in America which precede Able's time in aelfrice are still\ndifficult to deal with, though the moment Able plants a seed in mythgarthr,\nhe sees his adult form looking at him, showing the non-linear nature of\ntime there ... there are two possibilities. One is of course involved in\nthe myths surrounding the isles of the blessed - three good lives and the\nsoul gets to go to that island. The other is found in the words of the most\nlow god, who tells Able that he holds a great truth: the end is the\nbeginning and the beginning is the end. Thus a \"memory\" of America based on\npotential futures ..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 6:18 AM, Marc Aramini wrote:\noh yeah - the name of the two headed giant - orgalmir and borgalmir (O and\nB), whom Able jokingly suggests killed Gilling (when Toug (I think - need\nto check and make sure it isn't Svon) sees Gilling fall, it is preceded by\nOrg strangling another giant in a surreal juxtaposition, almost as if Org\nis strangling Gilling (of course he really is - all the parties, including\nthe red blood cells Uri and Baki (who have no soul/nucleus of their own,\ncopied from Kulili's threads (DNA)) so all the stories of Gilling's death\nare true at the same time, though for the plot Garvaon did it for love. (G\nkilling G, taming Gylf; sacrifice)\n\nOn Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 6:00 AM, Marc Aramini \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I am still working on the Wizard Knight writeup because I am striving for\nthe optimum organization in order to be as convincing as possible. I will\nset this up far more carefully in the writeup.\n\nThough I strongly dislike when Borski collapses many characters into\nInire at great length in his analysis of New Sun, I feel this is\nunavoidable in Wizard Knight due to the letter associations - O signifies\nthe same threat of strangulation and starvation whether it is the helpless\nmanifestation of the baby Ossar, the cannibalistic attacks of the\nOsterlings, or the strangling hands of Org. The question is whether Org is\nAble (Arthur's) or Bold (Ben's) defense mechanism, contra Gylf (G) (Able\nwill \"die\" and ascend to Skai (S) on the back of the Griffin (G))\n\nAt the start when Able (A) comes to the Griffin (G) (and he and Bold (B)\nwill eventually sit together on its banks), he talks to some fishermen like\nScaur (S) about ghost stories and planting his seed. Oesterlings (O) have\nrazed Bluestone (B) castle. You can put the letters in from here.\n\nSchildstarr attacks Glennidam when Bold loses his shadow; when Org comes\nto Sheerwall, Master Thope is stabbed. Schildstarr and Thiazi form an\nalliance after Gilling is injured, but Svon and Toug fight. Org strangles,\nbut Able gives the starving child Ossar to the aelf and receives Gylf in\nexchange (as he himself starves in that scene). Later, Svon and Toug will\ndiscuss how each of them have a monster (through Svon's broken nose) -\nthese monsters are of course Org and Gylf. Garsecg is Setr, Arnthor's\nbrother. S and T are extensions of the A and B brother cognate, with their\naggressive defense mechanisms attacking each other as O and G. This even\nworks in Skai (S) when Able fights the Giants (G) of Winter and Old Knight\n- he even comes to Modgud, (Mag, Mom, etc) whose womb gestates for a\nthousand years (!!!) to face her in her immensity, becoming the Green\nKnight for a time when his head is cut off (see where I am going with\nthat?). We have a two headed turtle, a two headed giant, and, in the talk\nof Bold Berthed, the girl Skjena has six fingers - abnormal growths.\n\nThe question is whether Tough or Svon corresponds with Able or Bold, the\ntwins who will be reconciled into one individual on the final pages and\nbecome a chimeric individual (Bold survives and vanquishes Schildstarr in\nthe sky). Gilling, Gylf, Garsecg and even Garvaon are all manifestations of\nthe same aspect of Able's subconscious, some kind, some brutal, but do they\nrepresent the other/brother or himself? judging from the defeat of\nSchidlstarr and the orders of S and T compared to A and B ... should Svon\nlinked to Able and Toug to Bold? Svon and Toug have different monsters in\nthat battle scene because they perceive the threat of the other child,\ntaking resources, in different ways.\n\n(I set this up by looking at the dreams in conjunction first in the\nwriteup and going into the mythological background quite a bit - hopefully\nI can finish it soon. Almost every scene keeps repeating the same patterns,\neven Huld's ghostly warning - you fear the sister - fear the brother.)\n\nWhen Bold discusses how Able would have run when Schildstarr attacked,\nAble says, no I wouldn't - you didn't, aren't we the same? (near this\nscene he sees two spiny orange trees - one cut down and another grown -\nthis doesn't make sense on the plot level, but it does make sense\nmetaphorically.) When Able comes to mythgarthr, he has struggles with both\nyoung Toug (who tries to take his bow) and young Svon, Svon, too, says that\nhe has been harassed by the aelf at the camp. At this point those struggles\nshould probably be considered internal in nature. So while all of these\nwill eventually collapse into the surviving Bold/Ben character thanks to\nAble's sacrifice ... is Able related to Svon or is Bold? Sounds ridiculous,\nI know. The goose that arnthor splits in two at the feast is stuffed with\nall kinds of other birds inside it, and that's what we have in this story." } ] } ] }