{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6793", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 6793, "subject": "wolfe playing dirty in sorcerer’s house ...", "messages": 4, "voices": 3, "first": "2018-05-21T15:29:47+00:00", "last": "2018-06-02T04:14:33+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2018-05-21T15:29:47+00:00", "subject": "(urth) wolfe playing dirty in sorcerer’s house ...", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "So there are a few things that didn’t add up in the conclusion of the\nsorcerer’s house. One is the funeral of skotos with three guests - one of\nthem is Mr Black, who Bax concludes is Skotos, though Hardaway does not\nrecognize him, even though he was good friends with Skotos. That argues\nagainst Skotos being Black. The other is Nick’s story of he and Nicholas\nbeing grown in a trough by mr Black ... clearly either that or his later\nidentification as zwart black is a lie.\n\nBax sees a white horse in the middle of the story. While I wanted to make\nthis a kelpie kind of spirit, we should remember that the butler of Herod\n(anachronistically) has the head of John the Baptist, who proclaimed the\ncoming of Christ. Bax arrives in January in Medicine Man. Duke at the duchy\nof cumberbach makes a compelling case that medicine man is Medicine Hat,\nCanada, in which a local legend says that one man sacrificed his wife to\nthe river to get the hat of the shamans (see the pelt/hair of lupine).\nKipling said the town had all Hell as a basement.\n\nWe have Nick and Nicholas and a Greek. St Nicholas was born of a Greek\nfamily. He gives gifts, but more importantly, I feel in doing his research\nWolfe looked up all kinds of house spirits, which include Shinto figures,\nkikimora, domovoys ... and, in some versions, Knecht Ruprecht, st nicolas?s\nServant, is associated with kobolds.\n\nLook at this description, and remember that mr Black has a staff he always\ncarries, a white horse appears, Bax receives gifts, is beaten by a stick,\nthe prominence of someone pretending to be Mr Black, the double mention of\nNicholas, the position as a butler, and a man dressing up as a woman\n(winker is called a He by Ieuan and later Doris thinks the obverse of the\ncoin features a man rather than a woman), also keeping in mind that The\nhouse is called the devil’s house\n\n?Knecht Ruprecht is Saint Nicholas' most familiar attendant in Germany.\nAccording to some stories, Ruprecht began as a farmhand; in others, he is a\nwild foundling whom\nSaint Nicholas raises from childhood.\n\nRuprecht wears a black or brown robe with a pointed hood. Sometimes he\nwalks with a limp, because of a childhood injury. He can be seen carrying a\nlong staff and a bag of ashes, and on occasion wears little bells on his\nclothes.[2]\nSometimes\nhe rides on a white horse, and sometimes he is accompanied by fairies or\nmen with blackened faces dressed as old women.[2]\n\n\nAccording to Alexander Tille\n, Knecht Ruprecht\noriginally represented an archetypal manservant, \"and has exactly as much\nindividuality of social rank and as little personal individuality as the Junker\nHanns and the Bauer Michel, the characters representative of country\nnobility and peasantry respectively.\"[3]\n Tille\nalso states that Knecht Ruprecht originally had no connection with\nChristmastime.[3]\n\nRuprecht was\na common name for the Devil in\nGermany?\n\n\nNicholas’s companions are also thought of as kobolds or house spirits. Bad\nchildren are punished by being thrown in sacks and beaten or thrown in the\nriver.\n\n\nWhen bax asks nick if mr Black is dead, a non sequitur on both parts\noccurs. He answers “you, um. Sir. Or the boys, sir. Emlyn, I would think.\nOr both, sir.”\n\n“I did not kill him, Nick. I have never killed anyone...”\n\n?Sir?? (258)\n\n\nThe question here might indicate that nick is not talking about someone\nbeing killed - and he is saying that perhaps both of the boys are dead,\ngrammatically. Unfortunately, there are still some aspects this really does\nnot explain (Ambrosius, whose name means “immortal” being strangled by\nGoldwurm and thrown into the river, though Nicholas has hands which\nstrangle. And how this overlays with Ted Griffin and Doris, though the\nnames Ted, Ieuan, and Doris all mean “gift” - st Nick gives them, after\nall. But at the end there are only lupine and (two) emlyns. Kate Finn and\nCathy Ruth have first names which mean clear or pure - the last name of\nThelma Nabor means to cleanse or purify. The victims of the wolf attack are\nMartha murrey’s neighbor and a nurse (she wanted to be a nurse). Finn’s\nlast name means fair or white - Ruprecht means bright.\n\n\nBax rejects the valuable gift he was given and has to pay the price. But\nthere are still some things, like what happened forty years ago, that make\nlittle sense and require huge amounts of extrapolation. Staff, horse, gift,\nblackface (metaphorically), Devil, House spirit and the name Nick might\ninvoke Ruprecht here, but I don’t think this is very fair." } ] }, { "message_id": "<6a5787ce-4956-9aaa-c4d7-e137cfbdbf67@casema.nl>", "from": { "name": "Ab de Vos", "address": "foxyab at casema.nl" }, "date": "2018-05-23T08:37:30+00:00", "subject": "(urth) wolfe playing dirty in sorcerer’s house ...", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Dutch Sinterklaas has a servant Black Piet usually done in blackface to \nthe horror of anti racism activists. It has been quite an issue the last \nfew years whereas before nobody seemed to care. Anyway Sinterklaas is \nSt. Nicholas and he brings presents to the good children on december 5. \nBad children are supposed to be taken to Spain in a bag and punished \nwith a birch by Black Piet who comes down through the chimney to lay \ndown the presents at the fireside. Were supposed to be taken and \npunished I should say as it is all deemed too harsh nowadays for the \nchild's soul. Sinterklaas rides his horse over the rooftops. A few weeks \nbefore dec. 5 Sinterklaas arrives by boat from Spain which is being \nshown on national television. Nowadays under police protection because \nof the protesters. When I was a child I learned many songs related to \nthis feast. The days leading up to dec 5 you put your shoes by the \nfireside and Black Piet would put sweets or little presents into them. 5 \ndec. was the big day, like Christmas in the US. Santa Claus is \noriginally Sinterklaas I believe. These days Santa Claus is making \ninroads on Sinterklaas and Christmas is competing.\n\n\nOp 21-5-2018 om 17:29 schreef Marc Aramini:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "So there are a few things that didn’t add up in the conclusion of the \nsorcerer’s house. One is the funeral of skotos with three guests - one \nof them is Mr Black, who Bax concludes is Skotos, though Hardaway does \nnot recognize him, even though he was good friends with Skotos. That \nargues against Skotos being Black. The other is Nick’s story of he and \nNicholas being grown in a trough by mr Black ... clearly either that \nor his later identification as zwart ?black is a lie.\n\nBax sees a white horse in the middle of the story. While I wanted to \nmake this a kelpie kind of spirit, we should remember that the butler \nof Herod (anachronistically) has the head of John the Baptist, who \nproclaimed the coming of Christ. Bax arrives in January in Medicine \nMan. Duke at the duchy of cumberbach makes a compelling case that \nmedicine man is Medicine Hat, Canada, in which a local legend says \nthat one man sacrificed his wife to the river to get the hat of the \nshamans (see the pelt/hair of lupine). Kipling said the town had all \nHell as a basement.\n\nWe have Nick and Nicholas and a Greek. St Nicholas was born of a Greek \nfamily. He gives gifts, but more importantly, I feel in doing his \nresearch Wolfe looked up all kinds of house spirits, which include \nShinto figures, kikimora, domovoys ... and, in some versions, Knecht \nRuprecht, st nicolas?s Servant, is associated with kobolds.\n\nLook at this description, and remember that mr Black has a staff he \nalways carries, a white horse appears, Bax receives gifts, is beaten \nby a stick, the prominence of someone pretending to be Mr Black, the \ndouble mention of Nicholas, the position as a butler, and a man \ndressing up as a woman (winker is called a He by Ieuan and later Doris \nthinks the obverse of the coin features a man rather than a woman), \nalso keeping in mind that The house is called the devil’s house\n\n?Knecht Ruprecht is Saint Nicholas' most familiar attendant in \nGermany. According to some stories, Ruprecht began as a farmhand; in \nothers, he is a wild foundling \n?whom Saint \nNicholas raises from childhood.\n\nRuprecht wears a black or brown robe with a pointed hood. Sometimes he \nwalks with a limp, because of a childhood injury. He can be seen \ncarrying a long staff and a bag of ashes, and on occasion wears little \nbells on his clothes.^[2] \n \nSometimes he rides on a white horse, and sometimes he is accompanied \nby fairies or men with blackened faces dressed as old women.^[2] \n\n\nAccording to Alexander Tille \n, Knecht Ruprecht \noriginally represented an archetypal manservant, \"and has exactly as \nmuch individuality of social rank and as little personal individuality \nas the Junker Hanns?and the Bauer Michel, the characters \nrepresentative of country nobility and peasantry respectively.\"^[3] \n \n“Tille also states that Knecht Ruprecht originally had no connection \nwith Christmastime.^[3] \n \nRuprecht was a common name for the Devil \n?in Germany”\n\n\nNicholas’s companions are also thought of as kobolds or house spirits. \nBad children are punished by being thrown in sacks and beaten or \nthrown in the river.\n\n\nWhen bax asks nick if mr Black is dead, a non sequitur on both parts \noccurs. He answers “you, um. Sir. Or the boys, sir. Emlyn, I would \nthink. Or both, sir.”\n\n“I did not kill him, Nick. I have never killed anyone...”\n\n?Sir?? (258)\n\n\nThe question here might indicate that nick is not talking about \nsomeone being killed - and he is saying that perhaps both of the boys \nare dead, grammatically. Unfortunately, there are still some aspects \nthis really does not explain (Ambrosius, whose name means “immortal” \nbeing strangled by Goldwurm and thrown into the river, though Nicholas \nhas hands which strangle. And how this overlays with Ted Griffin and \nDoris, though the names Ted, Ieuan, and Doris all mean “gift” - st \nNick gives them, after all. But at the end there are only lupine and \n(two) emlyns. Kate Finn and Cathy Ruth have first names which mean \nclear or pure - the last name of Thelma Nabor means to cleanse or \npurify. The victims of the wolf attack are Martha murrey’s neighbor \nand a nurse (she wanted to be a nurse). Finn’s last name means fair or \nwhite - Ruprecht means bright.\n\n\nBax rejects the valuable gift he was given and has to pay the price. \nBut there are still some things, like what happened forty years ago, \nthat make little sense and require huge amounts of extrapolation. \nStaff, horse, gift, blackface (metaphorically), Devil, House spirit \nand the name Nick might invoke Ruprecht here, but I don’t think this \nis very fair.\n\n\n\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Robert Pirkola", "address": "rpirkola at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2018-06-01T19:32:17+00:00", "subject": "(urth) wolfe playing dirty in sorcerer's house ...", "in_reply_to": "<6a5787ce-4956-9aaa-c4d7-e137cfbdbf67@casema.nl>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On May 21, 2018 Marc Aramini wrote:\nkeeping in mind that The\nhouse is called the devil's house\nKnecht Ruprecht is Saint Nicholas' most familiar attendant in Germany." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Given the evil house and the connection you see with Knecht Ruprecht, have you looked again\nat \"And When They Appear\" to determine if there is any connection between the two or clues for\nanalysis?\n\nI would note that in \"And When They Appear\", Loki makes an appearance wearing a fox skin. Just sayin'." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2018-06-02T04:14:33+00:00", "subject": "(urth) wolfe playing dirty in sorcerer's house ...", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think he repurposed this use pretty thoroughly but he is definitely using\nthe Triple Goddess again too - the moon through the windows and on the\ntriannulis in various phases and the association of Lamia with Hecate -\nboth listed as mothers of Scylla. Finn as “light” and Murrey as “dark”\nmight even resonate with phases of the moon. As he played with the goddess\nchanging in Latro." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Friday, June 1, 2018, Robert Pirkola wrote:\n\nOn May 21, 2018 Marc Aramini wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "keeping in mind that The\nhouse is called the devil's house\nKnecht Ruprecht is Saint Nicholas' most familiar attendant in Germany." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Given the evil house and the connection you see with Knecht Ruprecht, have\nyou looked again\nat \"And When They Appear\" to determine if there is any connection between\nthe two or clues for\nanalysis?\n\nI would note that in \"And When They Appear\", Loki makes an appearance\nwearing a fox skin. Just sayin'." } ] } ] }