# Borrowed Man writeup *The Urth list — 27 messages, 3 voices, 29 Sep 2018* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### Marc Aramini *29 Sep 2018, 19:27* Here is my writeup on A borrowed man - two to go (land across, evil guest). https://pastebin.com/3Ph363VX --- ### Marc Aramini *30 Sep 2018, 03:37 · in reply to Marc Aramini* Well, gonna have to add this realization in there somewhere. Sometimes when I glance through these things afterwards a particular image clicks into place. When ern first sees Arabella at the owenbright library, she complains that he brought her chocolates that “greased the skid to Hell”. Chick Bantz, the androgynous thug in blue, then comes and offers ern three hundred creds, hot chocolate, and three sandwiches, trying to get him to leave with him. When ern gives the third sandwich away, he sees Arabella staring into space and unconsciously grasping a pencil. Ern told chick he had a card for a different library that would not unlock the owenbright doors, though they would let him out of Spice Grove. Ern will meet three Arabellas and will just leave one with Colette, whom he finds staring off into space just as Arabella was in this scene. I don’t know why sandwiches should serve as symbolic stand in for the Arabellas but they seem to. The library card he mentions as a means of egress, but not for every door, might also be related to the method he leaves the jungle planet door the first time: a key he already has which only works to exit the right side of the door. Chick’s short stature and blue clothes might link him to the deceased mother, but perhaps this set piece actually metonymically illustrates who was responsible for buying the Arabella “sandwiches.” We should remember cob (a swan - chick offers ern a swig of swan-n-sweetheart here) is a bird as his car Canary - chick, too might be in line with this. The Arabella clones may have been financed by Cob, with his murder on mars (mom) forgery. Whether chick IS a form of the mom or of Cob, this scene illustrates who put things in motion through the connection of bird (and food) imagery - cob-swan-canary-chick. That's a key scene because it is also where Ern makes his Chatterton mistake, the young forger who poisoned himself, thinking that instead the boy choked on a biscuit. Tied to the presence of Chick ... > On Sat, Sep 29, 2018 at 12:27 PM Marc Aramini wrote: > Here is my writeup on A borrowed man - two to go (land across, evil > guest). > > https://pastebin.com/3Ph363VX > _______________________________________________ --- ### Ab de Vos *30 Sep 2018, 11:07 · in reply to Marc Aramini* Great work Marc. Could it be relevant that time is not mentioned at all by Roglich, instead temperature differentials are introduced when space is displaced. Very weird. There must be some connection between Roglichs digression about space, the cold and hot polarity throughout the book and the plot. An indication that time is involved is maybe that the dates don't fit. The jungle world I found very inhospitable and constricted and not a place to spend time. Could it not be a place like Father Inure's garden? When people are going in and out of the jungle-room temporal changes may be involved like coming back before you entered. Then there is the river - or brook? - of time in Urth of the New Sun. I believe you also mentioned an interpretation like the one of /Point Blank/ (neo noir 1967) interpretation. Some critics said the whole movie was a revenge fantasy of the dying man (Lee Marvin) shot at the beginning. According to Wiki: "Some critics consider /Point Blank/, "a haunted, dream-like film that draws upon the spatial and temporal experiments of modernist European art cinema",^[16] especially the "time-fractured" films of French director Alain Resnais .^[17]" The names bother me as well: all those Co..'s and the fact that Payne and Fish are not mentioned in the list. Why not? Are they two known characters in disguise? I found Camestros Felapton's remarks interesting as a partial list of Wolfean tropes stretching back to Cerberus and not only characterizing his later work. Op 29-9-2018 om 21:27 schreef Marc Aramini: > Here is my writeup on A borrowed man - two to go (land across, evil > guest). > > https://pastebin.com/3Ph363VX > > > _______________________________________________ --- ### Marc Aramini *30 Sep 2018, 11:40 · in reply to Ab de Vos* Thanks. I really think the temp is about the subconscious fragment inside Ern: heat makes invisible writing in the book show up and when it cools down it disappears ... displaced space makes it cold ... coldbrook. So many possibilities but the chick scene with him pouring swan and sweetheart in the chocolate (chocolate greased the skid to hell) is I think at least one other possible reason things have gone wrong - cob and his girl in the mix. Late Wolfe is hardest Wolfe. So tricky. > On Sunday, September 30, 2018, Ab de Vos wrote: > Great work Marc. > > Could it be relevant that time is not mentioned at all by Roglich, instead > temperature differentials are introduced when space is displaced. Very > weird. There must be some connection between Roglichs digression about > space, the cold and hot polarity throughout the book and the plot. An > indication that time is involved is maybe that the dates don't fit. > > The jungle world I found very inhospitable and constricted and not a place > to spend time. Could it not be a place like Father Inure's garden? When > people are going in and out of the jungle-room temporal changes may be > involved like coming back before you entered. Then there is the river - or > brook? - of time in Urth of the New Sun. > > I believe you also mentioned an interpretation like the one of * Point > Blank* (neo noir 1967) interpretation. Some critics said the whole movie > was a revenge fantasy of the dying man (Lee Marvin) shot at the beginning. > According to Wiki: "Some critics consider *Point Blank*, "a haunted, > dream-like film that draws upon the spatial and temporal experiments of > modernist European art cinema",[16] > > especially the "time-fractured" films of French director Alain Resnais > .[17]" > > > The names bother me as well: all those Co..'s and the fact that Payne and > Fish are not mentioned in the list. Why not? Are they two known characters > in disguise? > > I found Camestros Felapton's remarks interesting as a partial list of > Wolfean tropes stretching back to Cerberus and not only characterizing his > later work. > > Op 29-9-2018 om 21:27 schreef Marc Aramini: > > Here is my writeup on A borrowed man - two to go (land across, evil > guest). > > https://pastebin.com/3Ph363VX > > > _______________________________________________ --- ### Marc Aramini *30 Sep 2018, 11:48 · in reply to Ab de Vos* Also, roglich gives them a second book in a blue binding. It has equations. Equations are mentioned as omitted on page 221 as a secret, where the burning man imagery starts. There are multiple copies of that book of equations, on the second shelf. I think that resonates with Arabella... but why equations? It is also to the bookcase that Roglich speaks. I think after 2001 Wolfe put more and more exposition in the embedded symbols - they have been there before even Peace (Ben yahya- son of John (were), Elia- olive: Olivia etc but now they are way harder to pin down. I’m certain Grafton is represented by a pencil (graphite) in land across. What the heck. > On Sunday, September 30, 2018, Ab de Vos wrote: > Great work Marc. > > Could it be relevant that time is not mentioned at all by Roglich, instead > temperature differentials are introduced when space is displaced. Very > weird. There must be some connection between Roglichs digression about > space, the cold and hot polarity throughout the book and the plot. An > indication that time is involved is maybe that the dates don't fit. > > The jungle world I found very inhospitable and constricted and not a place > to spend time. Could it not be a place like Father Inure's garden? When > people are going in and out of the jungle-room temporal changes may be > involved like coming back before you entered. Then there is the river - or > brook? - of time in Urth of the New Sun. > > I believe you also mentioned an interpretation like the one of * Point > Blank* (neo noir 1967) interpretation. Some critics said the whole movie > was a revenge fantasy of the dying man (Lee Marvin) shot at the beginning. > According to Wiki: "Some critics consider *Point Blank*, "a haunted, > dream-like film that draws upon the spatial and temporal experiments of > modernist European art cinema",[16] > > especially the "time-fractured" films of French director Alain Resnais > .[17]" > > > The names bother me as well: all those Co..'s and the fact that Payne and > Fish are not mentioned in the list. Why not? Are they two known characters > in disguise? > > I found Camestros Felapton's remarks interesting as a partial list of > Wolfean tropes stretching back to Cerberus and not only characterizing his > later work. > > Op 29-9-2018 om 21:27 schreef Marc Aramini: > > Here is my writeup on A borrowed man - two to go (land across, evil > guest). > > https://pastebin.com/3Ph363VX > > > _______________________________________________ --- ### Marc Aramini *30 Sep 2018, 11:49 · in reply to Marc Aramini* Auto correct strikes: were is weer. > On Sunday, September 30, 2018, Marc Aramini wrote: > Also, roglich gives them a second book in a blue binding. It has > equations. Equations are mentioned as omitted on page 221 as a secret, > where the burning man imagery starts. There are multiple copies of that > book of equations, on the second shelf. I think that resonates with > Arabella... but why equations? It is also to the bookcase that Roglich > speaks. > I think after 2001 Wolfe put more and more exposition in the embedded > symbols - they have been there before even Peace (Ben yahya- son of John > (were), Elia- olive: Olivia etc but now they are --- ### Marc Aramini *30 Sep 2018, 12:51 · in reply to Marc Aramini* Speaking of all the Co- names, when roglich points to the book he starts stuttering: I-I ... c-could you bring me a copy of my book ... a th-thin book in a b-b-blue binding. (82-3) I really think there is a relationship there. > On Sunday, September 30, 2018, Marc Aramini wrote: > Auto correct strikes: were is weer. > > On Sunday, September 30, 2018, Marc Aramini wrote: >> Also, roglich gives them a second book in a blue binding. It has >> equations. Equations are mentioned as omitted on page 221 as a secret, >> where the burning man imagery starts. There are multiple copies of that >> book of equations, on the second shelf. I think that resonates with >> Arabella... but why equations? It is also to the bookcase that Roglich >> speaks. >> I think after 2001 Wolfe put more and more exposition in the embedded >> symbols - they have been there before even Peace (Ben yahya- son of John >> (were), Elia- olive: Olivia etc but now they are --- ### Robert Pirkola *30 Sep 2018, 17:28 · follows Marc Aramini* Marc: I am reading through the write-up. You pointed out that you felt after writing it that there is some connection between Arabella and sandwiches. With that in mind, this stuck out to me from your writing: "[C]ould it be that Ern actually represents one which fits one side of the door but not the other? Would Arabella constitute the other side, assuming that her proliferation is slightly unnatural?" Ern on one side of the door, Arabella on the other -- a sandwich. --- ### Marc Aramini *30 Sep 2018, 18:09 · in reply to Robert Pirkola* Yes I really think this is the case. I am going to revise the ending a bit with these thoughts in mind but not too much - still going to leave that “open” conclusion. Hope you don’t mind the quotes in there I used the list heavily in this one. > On Sunday, September 30, 2018, Robert Pirkola wrote: > Marc: > I am reading through the write-up. You pointed out that you felt after > writing it that there is some connection between Arabella and sandwiches. > With that in mind, this stuck out to me from your writing: "[C]ould it be > that Ern actually represents one which fits one side of the door but not > the other? Would Arabella constitute the other side, assuming that her > proliferation is slightly unnatural?" Ern on one side of the door, > Arabella on the other -- a sandwich. --- ### Marc Aramini *01 Oct 2018, 12:46 · in reply to Marc Aramini* Also, there is a scene in which ern claims that water vapor makes the sky on the other planet so blue. Normally this would be just a little inaccuracy, but given the name of the Coldbrooks and the prominence of the color blue (from the blue and white clothes of the mother to the blue and white planet pictured next to the red planet choked by a snake on Murder on Mars to the man in blue looking for him to the blue smock of Chick to the blue trimmed shirt he pulls on from Cob’s room to .... the violet instead of blue eyes of Colette?!!!!!!! How does that interrogation go with Payne and fish - it dwells on the color of her eyes So ... blue indicative of a Coldbrook or a fragment of a coldbrook - an error which tells a symbolic truth. --- ### Marc Aramini *01 Oct 2018, 13:05 · in reply to Marc Aramini* And violet is more of a mix between blue and red, the color of the planets involved. However, besides the red cars (Geraldine, female persona of male comedian flip Wilson) ... what is red? What to do with this? > On Monday, October 1, 2018, Marc Aramini wrote: > Also, there is a scene in which ern claims that water vapor makes the sky > on the other planet so blue. Normally this would be just a little > inaccuracy, but given the name of the Coldbrooks and the prominence of the > color blue (from the blue and white clothes of the mother to the blue and > white planet pictured next to the red planet choked by a snake on Murder on > Mars to the man in blue looking for him to the blue smock of Chick to the > blue trimmed shirt he pulls on from Cob’s room to .... the violet instead > of blue eyes of Colette?!!!!!!! How does that interrogation go with Payne > and fish - it dwells on the color of her eyes So ... blue indicative of a > Coldbrook or a fragment of a coldbrook - an error which tells a symbolic > truth. --- ### Marc Aramini *01 Oct 2018, 13:08 · in reply to Marc Aramini* Fire and water, yes ... but that still doesn’t give me what I need here. > On Monday, October 1, 2018, Marc Aramini wrote: > And violet is more of a mix between blue and red, the color of the planets > involved. However, besides the red cars (Geraldine, female persona of male > comedian flip Wilson) ... what is red? What to do with this? > > On Monday, October 1, 2018, Marc Aramini wrote: >> Also, there is a scene in which ern claims that water vapor makes the sky >> on the other planet so blue. Normally this would be just a little >> inaccuracy, but given the name of the Coldbrooks and the prominence of the >> color blue (from the blue and white clothes of the mother to the blue and >> white planet pictured next to the red planet choked by a snake on Murder on >> Mars to the man in blue looking for him to the blue smock of Chick to the >> blue trimmed shirt he pulls on from Cob’s room to .... the violet instead >> of blue eyes of Colette?!!!!!!! How does that interrogation go with Payne >> and fish - it dwells on the color of her eyes So ... blue indicative of a >> Coldbrook or a fragment of a coldbrook - an error which tells a symbolic >> truth. --- ### Ab de Vos *01 Oct 2018, 14:46 · in reply to Marc Aramini* There is also one in which he looks at the moon of the jungle planet which is covered in ice. That too is because of the water. There would not be an ice and fire mythology - nazi's were fond of that one (/Arktos the polar myth/? by Joscelyn Godwin)- here, would it? Or something pre Socratic like water and fire or love and hate battling. Op 1-10-2018 om 14:46 schreef Marc Aramini: > Also, there is a scene in which ern claims that water vapor makes the > sky on the other planet so blue. Normally this would be just a little > inaccuracy, but given the name of the Coldbrooks and the prominence of > the color blue (from the blue and white clothes of the mother to the > blue and white planet pictured next to the red planet choked by a > snake on Murder on Mars to the man in blue looking for him to the blue > smock of Chick to the blue trimmed shirt he pulls on from Cob’s room > to .... the violet instead of blue eyes of Colette?!!!!!!! How does > that interrogation go with Payne and fish - it dwells on the color of > her eyes So ... blue indicative of a Coldbrook or a fragment of a > coldbrook - an error which tells a symbolic truth. > > > _______________________________________________ --- ### Robert Pirkola *01 Oct 2018, 16:18 · follows Ab de Vos* > On October 1, 2018 Marc Aramini wrote: > And violet is more of a mix between blue and red, the color of the planets > involved. However, besides the red cars (Geraldine, female persona of male > comedian flip Wilson) ... what is red? What to do with this? There are a couple of other references to red in the book. Ern says that he wrote a series involving a character called The Red Searcher (pg. 112). There are red leather bar stools at Coldbrook manor (pg. 197). Payne uses the term "macro-red" in some inscrutably slangy way: Ern: "You must find it unpleasant, I'm sure." Payne: "You bet we do. It's macro-red. If you can tell me anything that might help, I'll be your friend for life, and that's no chad, see?" (pg. 132). Arabella remembers saltwater taffy that came in a box decorated with a seascape. The taffies themselves were in "red, blue, and green wrappers". (pg. 91). RBG in Wolfe-land does not make me think of a Supreme Court Justice. --- ### Marc Aramini *01 Oct 2018, 16:23 · in reply to Robert Pirkola* That damn taffy ... Arabella and food. Saltwater, seascape - cold brook. For real though, how is anybody supposed to figure out which of the searchers is most associated with red? And the green ... I think Wolfe mapped these colors allegorically onto one particular thing in each case but how we can untangle that is still ... nebulous. > On Monday, October 1, 2018, Robert Pirkola wrote: > On October 1, 2018 Marc Aramini wrote: >> And violet is more of a mix between blue and red, the color of the planets >> involved. However, besides the red cars (Geraldine, female persona of male >> comedian flip Wilson) ... what is red? What to do with this? > There are a couple of other references to red in the book. Ern says that > he wrote a series involving a character called The Red Searcher (pg. 112). > There are red leather bar stools at Coldbrook manor (pg. 197). Payne uses > the term "macro-red" in some inscrutably slangy way: Ern: "You must find it > unpleasant, I'm sure." Payne: "You bet we do. It's macro-red. If you can > tell me anything that might help, I'll be your friend for life, and that's > no chad, see?" (pg. 132). Arabella remembers saltwater taffy that came in > a box decorated with a seascape. The taffies themselves were in "red, > blue, and green wrappers". (pg. 91). RBG in Wolfe-land does not make me > think of a Supreme Court Justice. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Urth on behalf of > urth-request at lists.urth.net > *Sent:* Sunday, September 30, 2018 8:35 PM > *To:* urth at lists.urth.net > *Subject:* Urth Digest, Vol 169, Issue 8 > > Send Urth mailing list submissions to > urth at lists.urth.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.urth.net/listinfo.cgi/urth-urth.net > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > urth-request at lists.urth.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > urth-owner at lists.urth.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Urth digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Borrowed Man writeup (Marc Aramini) > 2. Re: Borrowed Man writeup (Marc Aramini) > 3. Re: Borrowed Man writeup (Robert Pirkola) > 4. Re: Borrowed Man writeup (Marc Aramini) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 04:49:18 -0700 > From: Marc Aramini > To: The Urth Mailing List > Subject: Re: (urth) Borrowed Man writeup > Message-ID: > nkpZa2OBw at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Auto correct strikes: were is weer. > > On Sunday, September 30, 2018, Marc Aramini wrote: >> Also, roglich gives them a second book in a blue binding. It has >> equations. Equations are mentioned as omitted on page 221 as a secret, >> where the burning man imagery starts. There are multiple copies of that >> book of equations, on the second shelf. I think that resonates with >> Arabella... but why equations? It is also to the bookcase that Roglich >> speaks. >> I think after 2001 Wolfe put more and more exposition in the embedded >> symbols - they have been there before even Peace (Ben yahya- son of John >> (were), Elia- olive: Olivia etc but now they are >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: attachments/20180930/ab92dc61/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 05:51:13 -0700 > From: Marc Aramini > To: The Urth Mailing List > Subject: Re: (urth) Borrowed Man writeup > Message-ID: > mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Speaking of all the Co- names, when roglich points to the book he starts > stuttering: I-I ... c-could you bring me a copy of my book ... a th-thin > book in a b-b-blue binding. (82-3) I really think there is a relationship > there. > > On Sunday, September 30, 2018, Marc Aramini wrote: >> Auto correct strikes: were is weer. >> >> On Sunday, September 30, 2018, Marc Aramini >> wrote: >>> Also, roglich gives them a second book in a blue binding. It has >>> equations. Equations are mentioned as omitted on page 221 as a secret, >>> where the burning man imagery starts. There are multiple copies of that >>> book of equations, on the second shelf. I think that resonates with >>> Arabella... but why equations? It is also to the bookcase that Roglich >>> speaks. >>> I think after 2001 Wolfe put more and more exposition in the embedded >>> symbols - they have been there before even Peace (Ben yahya- son of John >>> (were), Elia- olive: Olivia etc but now they are > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: attachments/20180930/0867d1cb/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 17:28:21 +0000 > From: Robert Pirkola > To: "urth at lists.urth.net" > Subject: Re: (urth) Borrowed Man writeup > Message-ID: > namprd14.prod.outlook.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Marc: > I am reading through the write-up. You pointed out that you felt after > writing it that there is some connection between Arabella and sandwiches. > With that in mind, this stuck out to me from your writing: "[C]ould it be > that Ern actually represents one which fits one side of the door but not > the other? Would Arabella constitute the other side, assuming that her > proliferation is slightly unnatural?" Ern on one side of the door, > Arabella on the other -- a sandwich. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: attachments/20180930/d47314cd/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 11:09:16 -0700 > From: Marc Aramini --- ### Robert Pirkola *01 Oct 2018, 20:25 · follows Marc Aramini* This hot/cold thing is pretty interesting when you get into it. I just noticed two things that I thought were worth reporting. First, Arabella is described as "very, very hot" (pg. 265). Then you have Summer and Spring Peters. Summer lives in Kokolik City (pg. 228). Presumably this refers to futuristic city on the Kokolik River in Alaska. It is about as far north as land goes on the globe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kokolik_River. Spring lives "down" in "Nuevo Dinero" (pg. 228). This sounds like Mexico at least but might be anywhere in the Spanish speaking parts of North and South America. It is south of New Delphi. Clearly they are being separated into hot and cold camps. You say that in *Short Sun* Spring Wind is associated with Mars. If so, then Spring here would put Mars in the "hot" camp. Summer would be in the "cold" camp. (Of course, it occurs to me that if there is a thriving city up in the extreme north of Alaska, something drastic has changed with Earth's climate, so does this really put Summer in the "cold" camp?) Marc asks this about Summer (a heart surgeon) in his write-up: "Would a heart surgeon be privy to undetectable drugs which might mimic cardiac arrest or be useful in obtaining them?" If heat is associated with death, then Summer living in Kokolik City would seem to answer this question in the negative. If cold is associated with death, then the opposite. How do you see hot/cold? Certaintly Ern associates heat with his ultimate demise, but at the same time heat is necessarily about change and life is nothing if not change. I generally associate cold with lack of change/death. This is odd for Ern because he associates heat with death but maybe it is a necessary heat and death is necessary for life. Earth is blue/cold/death because humanity has retired. Is this what you are going for Marc? Marc's write-up says: "I think the burning man is a metaphor for humanity, complacent in its damnation, rather than a literal statement about Ern as an individual." But if humanity is complacent and retired and cold and blue and dead isn't the burning man a metaphor for the irrational fear the dead have of life? Ern isn't scared of being incinerated because he is scared of dying, it's because he's scared of living. [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/df/USA_Alaska_location_map.svg/1200px-USA_Alaska_location_map.svg.png] Kokolik River - Wikipedia The Kokolik River is a stream, 200 miles (320 km) long, in the western North Slope of the U.S. state of Alaska. It rises in the De Long Mountains of the western Brooks Range and flows generally north and northwest into the Kasegaluk Lagoon. The river mouth is 1 mile (1.6 km) east of Point Lay, on the Chukchi Sea of the Arctic Ocean.. Its Inuit name, Kokolik, refers to the alpine bistort, an ... en.wikipedia.org --- ### Ab de Vos *01 Oct 2018, 21:56 · in reply to Marc Aramini* The names Arabella and Colette refer both via via vaguely to male catholic saints: Gregory the Great and Nicolas. Relevant? Red and Blue are primary colors: yellow is missing. Is A Borrowed Man's world a world without a sun? I found a few references to night time but not to day time. Is it a world without a salvation, a sort of hell? How would time be measured? There is also systematic discrimination of reclones which even sounds a bit like negroes. Op 1-10-2018 om 18:23 schreef Marc Aramini: > That damn taffy ... Arabella and food. Saltwater, seascape - cold > brook. For real though, how is anybody supposed to figure out which of > the searchers is most associated with red? And the green ... I think > Wolfe mapped these colors allegorically onto one particular thing in > each case but how we can untangle that is still ... nebulous. > > On Monday, October 1, 2018, Robert Pirkola > wrote: > > On October 1, 2018 Marc Aramini wrote: > > >And violet is more of a mix between blue and red, the color of the planets > >involved. However, besides the red cars (Geraldine, female persona of male > >comedian flip Wilson) ... what is red? What to do with this? > > There are a couple of other references to red in the book. Ern > says that he wrote a series involving a character called The Red > Searcher (pg. 112). There are red leather bar stools at Coldbrook > manor (pg. 197). Payne uses the term "macro-red" in some > inscrutably slangy way: Ern: "You must find it unpleasant, I'm > sure."? Payne: "You bet we do. It's macro-red. If you can tell > me anything that might help, I'll be your friend for life, and > that's no chad, see?" (pg. 132). Arabella remembers saltwater > taffy that came in a box decorated with a seascape. The taffies > themselves were in "red, blue, and green wrappers". (pg. 91). > RBG in Wolfe-land does not make me think of a Supreme Court Justice. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Urth > on behalf of > urth-request at lists.urth.net > > > *Sent:* Sunday, September 30, 2018 8:35 PM > *To:* urth at lists.urth.net > *Subject:* Urth Digest, Vol 169, Issue 8 > Send Urth mailing list submissions to > urth at lists.urth.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.urth.net/listinfo.cgi/urth-urth.net > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > urth-request at lists.urth.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > urth-owner at lists.urth.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Urth digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > ? 1. Re: Borrowed Man writeup (Marc Aramini) > ? 2. Re: Borrowed Man writeup (Marc Aramini) > ? 3. Re: Borrowed Man writeup (Robert Pirkola) > ? 4. Re: Borrowed Man writeup (Marc Aramini) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 04:49:18 -0700 > From: Marc Aramini > > To: The Urth Mailing List > > Subject: Re: (urth) Borrowed Man writeup > Message-ID: > ??????? > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Auto correct strikes: were is weer. > > On Sunday, September 30, 2018, Marc Aramini > wrote: > > > Also, roglich gives them a second book in a blue binding. It has > > equations. Equations are mentioned as omitted on page 221 as a > secret, > > where the burning man imagery starts. There are multiple copies > of that > > book of equations, on the second shelf. I think that resonates with > > Arabella... but why equations? It is also to the bookcase that > Roglich > > speaks. > > I think after 2001 Wolfe put more and more exposition in the > embedded > > symbols - they have been there before even Peace (Ben yahya- son > of John > > (were), Elia- olive: Olivia etc but now they are > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 05:51:13 -0700 > From: Marc Aramini > > To: The Urth Mailing List > > Subject: Re: (urth) Borrowed Man writeup > Message-ID: > ??????? > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Speaking of all the Co- names, when roglich points to the book he > starts > stuttering: I-I ... c-could you bring me a copy of my book ... a > th-thin > book in a b-b-blue binding. (82-3) I really think there is a > relationship > there. > > On Sunday, September 30, 2018, Marc Aramini > wrote: > > > Auto correct strikes: were is weer. > > > > On Sunday, September 30, 2018, Marc Aramini > > wrote: > > > >> Also, roglich gives them a second book in a blue binding. It has > >> equations. Equations are mentioned as omitted on page 221 as a > secret, > >> where the burning man imagery starts. There are multiple copies > of that > >> book of equations, on the second shelf. I think that resonates with > >> Arabella... but why equations? It is also to the bookcase that > Roglich > >> speaks. > >> I think after 2001 Wolfe put more and more exposition in the > embedded > >> symbols - they have been there before even Peace (Ben yahya- > son of John > >> (were), Elia- olive: Olivia etc but now they are > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 17:28:21 +0000 > From: Robert Pirkola > > To: "urth at lists.urth.net " > > > Subject: Re: (urth) Borrowed Man writeup > Message-ID: > ??????? > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Marc: > I am reading through the write-up. You pointed out that you felt > after writing it that there is some connection between Arabella > and sandwiches. With that in mind, this stuck out to me from your > writing: "[C]ould it be that Ern actually represents one which > fits one side of the door but not the other? Would Arabella > constitute the other side, assuming that her proliferation is > slightly unnatural?"? Ern on one side of the door, Arabella on the > other -- a sandwich. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 11:09:16 -0700 > From: Marc Aramini > --- ### Marc Aramini *01 Oct 2018, 22:03 · in reply to Robert Pirkola* Hi Robert. Yes I noticed the association of Arabella with heat and I had a note about kokolik I never put in the writeup ... we are going some interesting places here. While I would love a link to mars, given the planet choked by a snake (a woman’s a snake and a snare, I hear), let’s hone in on the nature of the spring wind - early summer (June/Juno) reference. Spring wind is mars because of the story of Juno impregnated by a tree in Ovid, the birth of Mars. That may or may not be applicable here. Summer is a hot month. But she is in a cold place. The man in woman woman in man Shakespearean stuff ... is spring a warm month? Are summer and spring the hot to the coldbrook?s cold? There’s a precision here that is complicated by Arabella and heat ... but she seems to be related to the machinations of chick/cob if there is any validity to the sandwhich. Is Colette Colette or is she a “hot” imitation? > On Monday, October 1, 2018, Robert Pirkola wrote: > This hot/cold thing is pretty interesting when you get into it. I just > noticed two things that I thought were worth reporting. > First, Arabella is described as "very, very hot" (pg. 265). Then you have > Summer and Spring Peters. Summer lives in Kokolik City (pg. 228). > Presumably this refers to futuristic city on the Kokolik River in Alaska. > It is about as far north as land goes on the globe. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kokolik_River. Spring lives "down" in > "Nuevo Dinero" (pg. 228). This sounds like Mexico at least but > might be anywhere in the Spanish speaking parts of North and South > America. It is south of New Delphi. Clearly they are being separated > into hot and cold camps. You say that in *Short Sun* Spring Wind is > associated with Mars. If so, then Spring here would put Mars in the "hot" > camp. Summer would be in the "cold" camp. (Of course, it occurs to me > that if there is a thriving city up in the extreme north of Alaska, > something drastic has changed with Earth's climate, so does this really put > Summer in the "cold" camp?) Marc asks this about Summer (a heart surgeon) > in his write-up: "Would a heart surgeon be privy to undetectable drugs > which might mimic cardiac arrest or be useful in obtaining them?" If heat > is associated with death, then Summer living in Kokolik City would seem to > answer this question in the negative. If cold is associated with death, > then the opposite. How do you see hot/cold? Certaintly Ern associates > heat with his ultimate demise, but at the same time heat is necessarily > about change and life is nothing if not change. I generally associate cold > with lack of change/death. This is odd for Ern because he associates heat > with death but maybe it is a necessary heat and death is necessary for > life. Earth is blue/cold/death because humanity has retired. Is this what > you are going for Marc? Marc's write-up says: "I think the burning man is > a metaphor for humanity, complacent in its damnation, rather than a literal > statement about Ern as an individual." But if humanity is complacent and > retired and cold and blue and dead isn't the burning man a metaphor for the > irrational fear the dead have of life? Ern isn't scared of being > incinerated because he is scared of dying, it's because he's scared of > living. > > Kokolik River - Wikipedia > The Kokolik River is a stream, 200 miles (320 km) long, in the western > North Slope of the U.S. state of Alaska. It rises in the De Long Mountains > of the western Brooks Range and flows generally north and northwest into > the Kasegaluk Lagoon. The river mouth is 1 mile (1.6 km) east of Point Lay, > on the Chukchi Sea of the Arctic Ocean.. Its Inuit name, Kokolik, refers to > the alpine bistort, an ... > en.wikipedia.org --- ### Marc Aramini *01 Oct 2018, 22:04 · in reply to Marc Aramini* And those sandwiches are part of the swan-n-sweetheart spiking of the chocolate which may or may not have greased the slippery slope to hell > On Monday, October 1, 2018, Marc Aramini wrote: > Hi Robert. Yes I noticed the association of Arabella with heat and I had a > note about kokolik I never put in the writeup ... we are going some > interesting places here. While I would love a link to mars, given the > planet choked by a snake (a woman’s a snake and a snare, I hear), let’s > hone in on the nature of the spring wind - early summer (June/Juno) > reference. Spring wind is mars because of the story of Juno impregnated by > a tree in Ovid, the birth of Mars. That may or may not be applicable here. > Summer is a hot month. But she is in a cold place. The man in woman woman > in man Shakespearean stuff ... is spring a warm month? Are summer and > spring the hot to the coldbrook?s cold? There’s a precision here that is > complicated by Arabella and heat ... but she seems to be related to the > machinations of chick/cob if there is any validity to the sandwhich. Is > Colette Colette or is she a “hot” imitation? > > On Monday, October 1, 2018, Robert Pirkola wrote: >> This hot/cold thing is pretty interesting when you get into it. I just >> noticed two things that I thought were worth reporting. >> First, Arabella is described as "very, very hot" (pg. 265). Then you >> have Summer and Spring Peters. Summer lives in Kokolik City (pg. 228). >> Presumably this refers to futuristic city on the Kokolik River in >> Alaska. It is about as far north as land goes on the globe. >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kokolik_River. Spring lives "down" in >> "Nuevo Dinero" (pg. 228). This sounds like Mexico at least but >> might be anywhere in the Spanish speaking parts of North and South >> America. It is south of New Delphi. Clearly they are being separated >> into hot and cold camps. You say that in *Short Sun* Spring Wind is >> associated with Mars. If so, then Spring here would put Mars in the "hot" >> camp. Summer would be in the "cold" camp. (Of course, it occurs to me >> that if there is a thriving city up in the extreme north of Alaska, >> something drastic has changed with Earth's climate, so does this really put >> Summer in the "cold" camp?) Marc asks this about Summer (a heart surgeon) >> in his write-up: "Would a heart surgeon be privy to undetectable drugs >> which might mimic cardiac arrest or be useful in obtaining them?" If heat >> is associated with death, then Summer living in Kokolik City would seem to >> answer this question in the negative. If cold is associated with death, >> then the opposite. How do you see hot/cold? Certaintly Ern associates >> heat with his ultimate demise, but at the same time heat is necessarily >> about change and life is nothing if not change. I generally associate cold >> with lack of change/death. This is odd for Ern because he associates heat >> with death but maybe it is a necessary heat and death is necessary for >> life. Earth is blue/cold/death because humanity has retired. Is this what >> you are going for Marc? Marc's write-up says: "I think the burning man is >> a metaphor for humanity, complacent in its damnation, rather than a literal >> statement about Ern as an individual." But if humanity is complacent and >> retired and cold and blue and dead isn't the burning man a metaphor for the >> irrational fear the dead have of life? Ern isn't scared of being >> incinerated because he is scared of dying, it's because he's scared of >> living. >> >> Kokolik River - Wikipedia >> The Kokolik River is a stream, 200 miles (320 km) long, in the western >> North Slope of the U.S. state of Alaska. It rises in the De Long Mountains >> of the western Brooks Range and flows generally north and northwest into >> the Kasegaluk Lagoon. The river mouth is 1 mile (1.6 km) east of Point Lay, >> on the Chukchi Sea of the Arctic Ocean.. Its Inuit name, Kokolik, refers to >> the alpine bistort, an ... >> en.wikipedia.org --- ### Marc Aramini *01 Oct 2018, 23:19 · in reply to Marc Aramini* The problem of course is that much like “violet” eyes being a mix or blue and red I think spring is a mix of hot and cold (?). If she were named winter it would be clear. She’s a teacher in new money. Colette is a teacher with money living in Taos Towers- also vaguely Spanish sounding in its implications. But there’s no reason not to believe that Mrs Peters has two children - and I don’t think a surgeon would try to take the identity of a school teacher unless the pay off were huge. > On Monday, October 1, 2018, Marc Aramini wrote: > Hi Robert. Yes I noticed the association of Arabella with heat and I had a > note about kokolik I never put in the writeup ... we are going some > interesting places here. While I would love a link to mars, given the > planet choked by a snake (a woman’s a snake and a snare, I hear), let’s > hone in on the nature of the spring wind - early summer (June/Juno) > reference. Spring wind is mars because of the story of Juno impregnated by > a tree in Ovid, the birth of Mars. That may or may not be applicable here. > Summer is a hot month. But she is in a cold place. The man in woman woman > in man Shakespearean stuff ... is spring a warm month? Are summer and > spring the hot to the coldbrook?s cold? There’s a precision here that is > complicated by Arabella and heat ... but she seems to be related to the > machinations of chick/cob if there is any validity to the sandwhich. Is > Colette Colette or is she a “hot” imitation? > > On Monday, October 1, 2018, Robert Pirkola wrote: >> This hot/cold thing is pretty interesting when you get into it. I just >> noticed two things that I thought were worth reporting. >> First, Arabella is described as "very, very hot" (pg. 265). Then you >> have Summer and Spring Peters. Summer lives in Kokolik City (pg. 228). >> Presumably this refers to futuristic city on the Kokolik River in >> Alaska. It is about as far north as land goes on the globe. >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kokolik_River. Spring lives "down" in >> "Nuevo Dinero" (pg. 228). This sounds like Mexico at least but >> might be anywhere in the Spanish speaking parts of North and South >> America. It is south of New Delphi. Clearly they are being separated >> into hot and cold camps. You say that in *Short Sun* Spring Wind is >> associated with Mars. If so, then Spring here would put Mars in the "hot" >> camp. Summer would be in the "cold" camp. (Of course, it occurs to me >> that if there is a thriving city up in the extreme north of Alaska, >> something drastic has changed with Earth's climate, so does this really put >> Summer in the "cold" camp?) Marc asks this about Summer (a heart surgeon) >> in his write-up: "Would a heart surgeon be privy to undetectable drugs >> which might mimic cardiac arrest or be useful in obtaining them?" If heat >> is associated with death, then Summer living in Kokolik City would seem to >> answer this question in the negative. If cold is associated with death, >> then the opposite. How do you see hot/cold? Certaintly Ern associates >> heat with his ultimate demise, but at the same time heat is necessarily >> about change and life is nothing if not change. I generally associate cold >> with lack of change/death. This is odd for Ern because he associates heat >> with death but maybe it is a necessary heat and death is necessary for >> life. Earth is blue/cold/death because humanity has retired. Is this what >> you are going for Marc? Marc's write-up says: "I think the burning man is >> a metaphor for humanity, complacent in its damnation, rather than a literal >> statement about Ern as an individual." But if humanity is complacent and >> retired and cold and blue and dead isn't the burning man a metaphor for the >> irrational fear the dead have of life? Ern isn't scared of being >> incinerated because he is scared of dying, it's because he's scared of >> living. >> >> Kokolik River - Wikipedia >> The Kokolik River is a stream, 200 miles (320 km) long, in the western >> North Slope of the U.S. state of Alaska. It rises in the De Long Mountains >> of the western Brooks Range and flows generally north and northwest into >> the Kasegaluk Lagoon. The river mouth is 1 mile (1.6 km) east of Point Lay, >> on the Chukchi Sea of the Arctic Ocean.. Its Inuit name, Kokolik, refers to >> the alpine bistort, an ... >> en.wikipedia.org --- ### Marc Aramini *02 Oct 2018, 08:26 · in reply to Marc Aramini* On second thought, March does make Spring innately related to Mars. But the Juno association of summer doesn’t do much in this case and I think the “choked by a snake” mars has some other connotation. I find the hot and cold associations much easier to try to contextualize. --- ### Marc Aramini *02 Oct 2018, 12:55 · in reply to Ab de Vos* Here, paradise is water and the desert with its sands of eternity impede progress, like arabella’s Poem of feet dragging across the desert with boots that can never be free from the sands of time . Yellow - the car canary is yellow. It seats six and ern and Arabella take it to taos towers at the end. While chick wears blue at first, later he wears a black overcoat in JULY (summer) when ern gets the drop on him in women’s clothing. The car Cat is black. So Wolfe is playing a seasonal game, a color game, and maybe a “person” game here. Should chick be at all counted in the yellow group for a time because of his (or her) name? I still think he is a metonymy rather than an actual player in the pre-ern drama which took place - the colors and the symbols tell us what happened before ern showed up since he can’t know. Now ... wrestling the man headed and ape headed being of many arms while a grave on mars filled it up with water might be more than a clue that Blue is Mars. The red planet ... death .... water fills it up. The red planet is choked by a snake on the cover. Cob is choked by someone with strong hands. > On Monday, October 1, 2018, Ab de Vos wrote: > The names Arabella and Colette refer both via via vaguely to male catholic > saints: Gregory the Great and Nicolas. Relevant? > > Red and Blue are primary colors: yellow is missing. Is A Borrowed Man's > world a world without a sun? I found a few references to night time but not > to day time. Is it a world without a salvation, a sort of hell? How would > time be measured? > > There is also systematic discrimination of reclones which even sounds a > bit like negroes. > > Op 1-10-2018 om 18:23 schreef Marc Aramini: > > That damn taffy ... Arabella and food. Saltwater, seascape - cold brook. > For real though, how is anybody supposed to figure out which of the > searchers is most associated with red? And the green ... I think Wolfe > mapped these colors allegorically onto one particular thing in each case > but how we can untangle that is still ... nebulous. > > On Monday, October 1, 2018, Robert Pirkola wrote: >> On October 1, 2018 Marc Aramini wrote: >>> And violet is more of a mix between blue and red, the color of the planets >>> involved. However, besides the red cars (Geraldine, female persona of male >>> comedian flip Wilson) ... what is red? What to do with this? >> There are a couple of other references to red in the book. Ern says that >> he wrote a series involving a character called The Red Searcher (pg. 112). >> There are red leather bar stools at Coldbrook manor (pg. 197). Payne uses >> the term "macro-red" in some inscrutably slangy way: Ern: "You must find it >> unpleasant, I'm sure." Payne: "You bet we do. It's macro-red. If you can >> tell me anything that might help, I'll be your friend for life, and that's >> no chad, see?" (pg. 132). Arabella remembers saltwater taffy that came in >> a box decorated with a seascape. The taffies themselves were in "red, >> blue, and green wrappers". (pg. 91). RBG in Wolfe-land does not make me >> think of a Supreme Court Justice. >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Urth on behalf of >> urth-request at lists.urth.net >> *Sent:* Sunday, September 30, 2018 8:35 PM >> *To:* urth at lists.urth.net >> *Subject:* Urth Digest, Vol 169, Issue 8 >> >> Send Urth mailing list submissions to >> urth at lists.urth.net >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://lists.urth.net/listinfo.cgi/urth-urth.net >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> urth-request at lists.urth.net >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> urth-owner at lists.urth.net >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Urth digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Borrowed Man writeup (Marc Aramini) >> 2. Re: Borrowed Man writeup (Marc Aramini) >> 3. Re: Borrowed Man writeup (Robert Pirkola) >> 4. Re: Borrowed Man writeup (Marc Aramini) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 04:49:18 -0700 >> From: Marc Aramini >> To: The Urth Mailing List >> Subject: Re: (urth) Borrowed Man writeup >> Message-ID: >> > gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Auto correct strikes: were is weer. >> >> On Sunday, September 30, 2018, Marc Aramini >> wrote: >>> Also, roglich gives them a second book in a blue binding. It has >>> equations. Equations are mentioned as omitted on page 221 as a secret, >>> where the burning man imagery starts. There are multiple copies of that >>> book of equations, on the second shelf. I think that resonates with >>> Arabella... but why equations? It is also to the bookcase that Roglich >>> speaks. >>> I think after 2001 Wolfe put more and more exposition in the embedded >>> symbols - they have been there before even Peace (Ben yahya- son of John >>> (were), Elia- olive: Olivia etc but now they are >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: > 20180930/ab92dc61/attachment-0001.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 05:51:13 -0700 >> From: Marc Aramini --- ### Marc Aramini *02 Oct 2018, 12:56 · in reply to Marc Aramini* The other dream Ern has when he is locked in the room by Payne and Fish is one in which he opens a book and Arabella comes out, but then later he forces Colette into a book, struggling to get her back on the shelf. Is this like the dream struggle around the watery grave on Mars? > On Tuesday, October 2, 2018, Marc Aramini wrote: > Here, paradise is water and the desert with its sands of eternity impede > progress, like arabella’s Poem of feet dragging across the desert with > boots that can never be free from the sands of time . > > Yellow - the car canary is yellow. It seats six and ern and Arabella take > it to taos towers at the end. While chick wears blue at first, later he > wears a black overcoat in JULY (summer) when ern gets the drop on him in > women’s clothing. The car Cat is black. So Wolfe is playing a seasonal > game, a color game, and maybe a “person” game here. Should chick be at all > counted in the yellow group for a time because of his (or her) name? I > still think he is a metonymy rather than an actual player in the pre-ern > drama which took place - the colors and the symbols tell us what happened > before ern showed up since he can’t know. > > Now ... wrestling the man headed and ape headed being of many arms while a > grave on mars filled it up with water might be more than a clue that Blue > is Mars. The red planet ... death .... water fills it up. The red planet is > choked by a snake on the cover. Cob is choked by someone with strong hands. > > > On Monday, October 1, 2018, Ab de Vos wrote: >> The names Arabella and Colette refer both via via vaguely to male >> catholic saints: Gregory the Great and Nicolas. Relevant? >> >> Red and Blue are primary colors: yellow is missing. Is A Borrowed Man's >> world a world without a sun? I found a few references to night time but not >> to day time. Is it a world without a salvation, a sort of hell? How would >> time be measured? >> >> There is also systematic discrimination of reclones which even sounds a >> bit like negroes. >> >> Op 1-10-2018 om 18:23 schreef Marc Aramini: >> >> That damn taffy ... Arabella and food. Saltwater, seascape - cold brook. >> For real though, how is anybody supposed to figure out which of the >> searchers is most associated with red? And the green ... I think Wolfe >> mapped these colors allegorically onto one particular thing in each case >> but how we can untangle that is still ... nebulous. >> >> On Monday, October 1, 2018, Robert Pirkola wrote: >>> On October 1, 2018 Marc Aramini wrote: >>>> And violet is more of a mix between blue and red, the color of the planets >>>> involved. However, besides the red cars (Geraldine, female persona of male >>>> comedian flip Wilson) ... what is red? What to do with this? >>> There are a couple of other references to red in the book. Ern says >>> that he wrote a series involving a character called The Red Searcher (pg. >>> 112). There are red leather bar stools at Coldbrook manor (pg. 197). >>> Payne uses the term "macro-red" in some inscrutably slangy way: Ern: "You >>> must find it unpleasant, I'm sure." Payne: "You bet we do. It's >>> macro-red. If you can tell me anything that might help, I'll be your >>> friend for life, and that's no chad, see?" (pg. 132). Arabella remembers >>> saltwater taffy that came in a box decorated with a seascape. The taffies >>> themselves were in "red, blue, and green wrappers". (pg. 91). RBG in >>> Wolfe-land does not make me think of a Supreme Court Justice. >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Urth on behalf of >>> urth-request at lists.urth.net >>> *Sent:* Sunday, September 30, 2018 8:35 PM >>> *To:* urth at lists.urth.net >>> *Subject:* Urth Digest, Vol 169, Issue 8 >>> >>> Send Urth mailing list submissions to >>> urth at lists.urth.net >>> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> http://lists.urth.net/listinfo.cgi/urth-urth.net >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> urth-request at lists.urth.net >>> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> urth-owner at lists.urth.net >>> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> than "Re: Contents of Urth digest..." >>> >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: Borrowed Man writeup (Marc Aramini) >>> 2. Re: Borrowed Man writeup (Marc Aramini) >>> 3. Re: Borrowed Man writeup (Robert Pirkola) >>> 4. Re: Borrowed Man writeup (Marc Aramini) >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 04:49:18 -0700 >>> From: Marc Aramini >>> To: The Urth Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: (urth) Borrowed Man writeup >>> Message-ID: >>> >> ail.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>> >>> Auto correct strikes: were is weer. >>> >>> On Sunday, September 30, 2018, Marc Aramini >>> wrote: >>>> Also, roglich gives them a second book in a blue binding. It has >>>> equations. Equations are mentioned as omitted on page 221 as a secret, >>>> where the burning man imagery starts. There are multiple copies of that >>>> book of equations, on the second shelf. I think that resonates with >>>> Arabella... but why equations? It is also to the bookcase that Roglich >>>> speaks. >>>> I think after 2001 Wolfe put more and more exposition in the embedded >>>> symbols - they have been there before even Peace (Ben yahya- son of >>>> John >>>> (were), Elia- olive: Olivia etc but now they are >>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: >> 0180930/ab92dc61/attachment-0001.html> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 2 >>> Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 05:51:13 -0700 >>> From: Marc Aramini --- ### Robert Pirkola *02 Oct 2018, 15:49 · follows Marc Aramini* > On October 1, 2018, Marc Aramini wrote: > And those sandwiches are part of the swan-n-sweetheart spiking of the > chocolate which may or may not have greased the slippery slope to hell The Swan-N-Sweetheart is interesting for reasons you already pointed out in the write-up. That is to say, we need to pay attention to its obvious reference to Cob and his fiance. I think this is very important to the story because of things that Greg Kurzawa pointed out when we were talking about this shortly after the book's release. Back on December 14, 2015, he wrote: > When EAS2 escapes from > Fish and Payne he heads for the bus station with the intent of rescuing > Colette from her kidnapper(s). He writes: "... I was the cat ... Now it > was Puss in Boots time, and Colette was the Marquis of Carabas." > > In the Puss in Boots story, the Marquis of Carabas was a low-born fraud. > Puss, using deceit and trickery, gets him married to the son of a king. > To me, this is a dead giveaway that Colette is not who she says she is. > The girl we know as Colette is a low-born fraud. We know that Conrad > Coldbrook Jr. ("Cob") had a fiancee, but we're not told anything about > her. Could this fiancee be the girl pretending to be Colette throughout > the entire book? She's included in the family painting in the sunroom, > but who's to say this isn't Cob and his fiancee, rather than Cob and his > sister? They are holding hands, after all. And Conrad Sr. has one hand > on his wife's shoulder, and another on his son's, almost as if to > declare, 'these are mine. The girl ... not so much.' I have always found this hard to argue with. The question really is, as Greg says just after the quoted material, who is the fiance really? To that end, I think it is helpful to remember this odd bit. Ern asks himself whether Swan-N-Sweetheart is "brandy or whiskey" (pg. 100). I think I mentioned this years ago, but I'll do it again. E&J Brandy is a very popular brand. So is Canadian Club for the whiskey side. Canadian Club is a CC, just like Collette. This might help bolster Greg's contention that the fiance is playing at being Collette. But the E&J is interesting too, if not for the same reasons. Ern is an "E" name. Joanne (Collette's mother) is a "J". Does this suggest that they were involved somehow? Perhaps years ago when Ern was a living human? Notice that Collette's mother's name is Joanne *Rebecca* Carole Coldbrook. There are suggestions that she was suicidal. I think it is helpful to recall the plot points of the famous novel/film *Rebecca* in this light. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebecca_(1940_film)#Plot. See what I mean? Supposed to be suicidal but really murdered. There is an extramarital pregnancy as well just to complicate things. But that might tie in with the E&J stuff I mentioned before. If Conrad Sr. killed Joanne because of an extramarital affair a la *Rebecca* and she was carrying Ern's baby at the time, that would be provide him a significant motive for murdering Conrad Sr. This ties back to Ern's name meaning, as I have point out earlier, "the true striker (killer)". A final note as well on the Puss in Boots bit. Marc, you've pointed out several times the cat motif that goes through the story. Puss in Boots adds to that. Perhaps following the cat references can point us towards the fiance. [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/16/Rebecca_1940_film_poster.jpg] Rebecca (1940 film) - Wikipedia Rebecca is a 1940 American romantic psychological thriller film directed by Alfred Hitchcock.It was Hitchcock's first American project, and his first film under contract with producer David O. Selznick.The screenplay by Robert E. Sherwood and Joan Harrison, and adaptation by Philip MacDonald and Michael Hogan, were based on the 1938 novel of the same name by Daphne du Maurier. en.wikipedia.org --- ### Robert Pirkola *02 Oct 2018, 15:56 · follows Robert Pirkola* > On October 1, 2018 Marc Aramini wrote: > The problem of course is that much like “violet” eyes being a mix or blue > and red I think spring is a mix of hot and cold (?). If she were named > winter it would be clear. She’s a teacher in new money. Colette is a > teacher with money living in Taos Towers- also vaguely Spanish sounding in > i>ts implications. But there’s no reason not to believe that Mrs Peters has > two children - and I don’t think a surgeon would try to take the identity > of a school teacher unless the pay off were huge. I don't think there is any reason to hesitate at this point. The mix of hot and cold in violet is clear to me. Spring is a mix of hot and cold. Spring is the daughter of the housekeeper and probably spent some time at the Coldbrook manor in her youth, perhaps enough to have Cob fall in love with her. She comes back and impersonates Collette and takes on violet eyes because of her mixed nature. Nuevo Dinero (new money) also suggests that she has married up. With Cob's death, she would come into money if they were married. How did the inheritance go again? Mrs. Peters could be a schemer like Ms. Danvers in *Rebecca*, looking to get her daughter set up at any cost. --- ### Robert Pirkola *03 Oct 2018, 13:02 · follows Robert Pirkola* > On October 1, 2018, Ab de Vos wrote: > Red and Blue are primary colors: yellow is missing. Is A Borrowed Man's > world a world without a sun? I found a few references to night time but > not to day time. Is it a world without a salvation, a sort of hell? How > would time be measured? Sun's out, buns out! ?The sky was as lovely a blue as that of the other world, if not better; our own yellow star, the star we call Sol, shone brightly. (pg. 198). --- ### Ab de Vos *03 Oct 2018, 15:37 · in reply to Robert Pirkola* Thanks Op 3-10-2018 om 15:02 schreef Robert Pirkola: > On October 1, 2018, Ab de Vos wrote: >> Red and Blue are primary colors: yellow is missing. Is A Borrowed Man's >> world a world without a sun? I found a few references to night time but >> not to day time. Is it a world without a salvation, a sort of hell? How >> would time be measured? > Sun's out, buns out!? ?The sky was as lovely a blue as that of the > other world, if not better; > our own yellow star, the star we call Sol, shone brightly. (pg. 198). > > > > > _______________________________________________ ---