{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6815", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 6815, "subject": "Interlibrary Loan", "messages": 38, "voices": 13, "first": "2019-04-26T12:59:32+00:00", "last": "2019-09-06T11:38:07+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Matthew Keeley", "address": "matthew.keeley.1 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2019-04-26T12:59:32+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Some good news from Twitter. According to Patrick Nielsen Hayden, Wolfe\nfinished *Interlibrary Loan *(sequel to *A Borrowed Man*) and Tor will be\npublishing it:\nhttps://twitter.com/pnh/status/1121644271545671680\n\n-Matt" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andrew Bollen", "address": "jurisper at gmail.com" }, "date": "2019-04-26T13:27:58+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Excellent! I was wondering.\n\nThat's a fantastic obit, mentioned in the thread:\nhttps://www.theringer.com/2019/4/25/18515675/gene-wolfe-science-fiction-author" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 22:29, Matthew Keeley \nwrote:\nSome good news from Twitter. According to Patrick Nielsen Hayden, Wolfe\nfinished *Interlibrary Loan *(sequel to *A Borrowed Man*) and Tor will be\npublishing it:\nhttps://twitter.com/pnh/status/1121644271545671680\n\n-Matt\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<33AC9BEC-54E3-4293-BE5E-1771E639D946@bellsouth.net>", "from": { "name": "PAUL RYDEEN", "address": "rydeen at bellsouth.net" }, "date": "2019-04-26T20:59:37+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Good news indeed! Who'd've thought we'd get one more Wolfe novel to read?\n\nMarc, looks like you can't finish your book just yet..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Apr 26, 2019, at 8:27 AM, Andrew Bollen wrote:\n\nExcellent! I was wondering.\n\nThat's a fantastic obit, mentioned in the thread: https://www.theringer.com/2019/4/25/18515675/gene-wolfe-science-fiction-author" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 22:29, Matthew Keeley wrote:\nSome good news from Twitter. According to Patrick Nielsen Hayden, Wolfe finished Interlibrary Loan (sequel to A Borrowed Man) and Tor will be publishing it:\nhttps://twitter.com/pnh/status/1121644271545671680\n\n-Matt\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2019-04-26T21:34:15+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "<33AC9BEC-54E3-4293-BE5E-1771E639D946@bellsouth.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I knew it had been submitted some time ago. I will finish Land Across but I\nintended not to treat on this one, so the task is never done even if it is\npublished. I am more concerned they will edit the meals or the scenes that\ndon’t make sense at first." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Friday, April 26, 2019, PAUL RYDEEN wrote:\nGood news indeed! Who'd've thought we'd get one more Wolfe novel to read?\n\nMarc, looks like you can't finish *your* book just yet...\n\n\nOn Apr 26, 2019, at 8:27 AM, Andrew Bollen wrote:\n\nExcellent! I was wondering.\n\nThat's a fantastic obit, mentioned in the thread: https://www.theringer.\ncom/2019/4/25/18515675/gene-wolfe-science-fiction-author\n\nOn Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 22:29, Matthew Keeley \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Some good news from Twitter. According to Patrick Nielsen Hayden, Wolfe\nfinished *Interlibrary Loan *(sequel to *A Borrowed Man*) and Tor will\nbe publishing it:\nhttps://twitter.com/pnh/status/1121644271545671680\n\n-Matt\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "PAUL RYDEEN", "address": "rydeen at bellsouth.net" }, "date": "2019-04-26T22:33:35+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The meals?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Apr 26, 2019, at 4:34 PM, Marc Aramini wrote:\n\nI knew it had been submitted some time ago. I will finish Land Across but I intended not to treat on this one, so the task is never done even if it is published. I am more concerned they will edit the meals or the scenes that don’t make sense at first. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Friday, April 26, 2019, PAUL RYDEEN wrote:\nGood news indeed! Who'd've thought we'd get one more Wolfe novel to read?\n\nMarc, looks like you can't finish your book just yet..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "On Apr 26, 2019, at 8:27 AM, Andrew Bollen wrote:\n\nExcellent! I was wondering.\n\nThat's a fantastic obit, mentioned in the thread: https://www.theringer.com/2019/4/25/18515675/gene-wolfe-science-fiction-author" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 22:29, Matthew Keeley wrote:\nSome good news from Twitter. According to Patrick Nielsen Hayden, Wolfe finished Interlibrary Loan (sequel to A Borrowed Man) and Tor will be publishing it:\nhttps://twitter.com/pnh/status/1121644271545671680\n\n-Matt\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2019-04-26T22:47:55+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes those three sandwiches in borrowed man and chick pouring swan and\nsweetheart into hot chocolate are a metonymy for hot Arabella’s three\nreclones and indicate cob (swan) and his love are behind something with her\n... but no mortal could possibly discern that wasn’t just fluff and be\ntempted to cut it." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Friday, April 26, 2019, PAUL RYDEEN wrote:\nThe meals?\n\nOn Apr 26, 2019, at 4:34 PM, Marc Aramini wrote:\n\nI knew it had been submitted some time ago. I will finish Land Across but\nI intended not to treat on this one, so the task is never done even if it\nis published. I am more concerned they will edit the meals or the scenes\nthat don’t make sense at first.\n\nOn Friday, April 26, 2019, PAUL RYDEEN wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Good news indeed! Who'd've thought we'd get one more Wolfe novel to read?\n\nMarc, looks like you can't finish *your* book just yet...\n\n\nOn Apr 26, 2019, at 8:27 AM, Andrew Bollen wrote:\n\nExcellent! I was wondering.\n\nThat's a fantastic obit, mentioned in the thread: https://www.theringer.\ncom/2019/4/25/18515675/gene-wolfe-science-fiction-author\n\nOn Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 22:29, Matthew Keeley \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Some good news from Twitter. According to Patrick Nielsen Hayden, Wolfe\nfinished *Interlibrary Loan *(sequel to *A Borrowed Man*) and Tor will\nbe publishing it:\nhttps://twitter.com/pnh/status/1121644271545671680\n\n-Matt\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Evan Pickett", "address": "picketter at gmail.com" }, "date": "2019-04-26T23:49:49+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm reminded of a scene from The Insider, although Mr. Wolfe would probably\nnot ever take this tone:\nhttps://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/724e8b4b-0515-48cf-b7f2-e49501158ca4\n\nSurely any editor would know by now that Gene Wolfe chose his words with\ncare?\n\nBest,\nEvan" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 3:48 PM Marc Aramini wrote:\nYes those three sandwiches in borrowed man and chick pouring swan and\nsweetheart into hot chocolate are a metonymy for hot Arabella’s three\nreclones and indicate cob (swan) and his love are behind something with her\n... but no mortal could possibly discern that wasn’t just fluff and be\ntempted to cut it.\n\nOn Friday, April 26, 2019, PAUL RYDEEN wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "The meals?\n\nOn Apr 26, 2019, at 4:34 PM, Marc Aramini wrote:\n\nI knew it had been submitted some time ago. I will finish Land Across but\nI intended not to treat on this one, so the task is never done even if it\nis published. I am more concerned they will edit the meals or the scenes\nthat don’t make sense at first.\n\nOn Friday, April 26, 2019, PAUL RYDEEN wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Good news indeed! Who'd've thought we'd get one more Wolfe novel to\nread?\n\nMarc, looks like you can't finish *your* book just yet...\n\n\nOn Apr 26, 2019, at 8:27 AM, Andrew Bollen wrote:\n\nExcellent! I was wondering.\n\nThat's a fantastic obit, mentioned in the thread:\nhttps://www.theringer.com/2019/4/25/18515675/gene-wolfe-science-fiction-author\n\nOn Fri, 26 Apr 2019 at 22:29, Matthew Keeley \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "Some good news from Twitter. According to Patrick Nielsen Hayden, Wolfe\nfinished *Interlibrary Loan *(sequel to *A Borrowed Man*) and Tor will\nbe publishing it:\nhttps://twitter.com/pnh/status/1121644271545671680\n\n-Matt\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2019-04-27T00:25:05+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "One hopes. Yes that’s how I feel about those who would edit Wolfe.he can\ncreate meaning in so many ways that every reader will certainly miss,\nespecially in his post 2000 work.\n(I’m glad cell phones made top posting the de facto response - I remember\nthe days of the list when it was a sin.) I have always preferred it." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Friday, April 26, 2019, Evan Pickett wrote:\nI'm reminded of a scene from The Insider, although Mr. Wolfe would\nprobably not ever take this tone:\nhttps://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/724e8b4b-0515-48cf-b7f2-e49501158ca4\n\nSurely any editor would know by now that Gene Wolfe chose his words with\ncare?\n\nBest,\nEvan\n\n\n\nOn Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 3:48 PM Marc Aramini \nwrote:" } ] }, { "message_id": "<00e501d4fca4$172fed40$458fc7c0$@hwaet.com>", "from": { "name": "Eric Bourland", "address": "eb at hwaet.com" }, "date": "2019-04-27T02:51:18+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I am wondering what result we would get if, individually and noisily, we reached out to Tor editors and implored them to do basic proofreading on the new novel, but make no changes in its substance, and publish it as Mr. Wolfe wrote it. I am willing to act on this.\n\n \n\nEric\n\n \n\n \n\n \n\n*******\n\nEric Bourland\n\neb at hwaet.com\n\nhttps://www.hwaet.com/\n\n \n\n \n\nFrom: Urth On Behalf Of Marc Aramini\nSent: Friday, April 26, 2019 8:25 PM\nTo: The Urth Mailing List \nSubject: Re: (urth) Interlibrary Loan\n\n \n\nOne hopes. Yes that’s how I feel about those who would edit Wolfe.he can create meaning in so many ways that every reader will certainly miss, especially in his post 2000 work. \n\n(I’m glad cell phones made top posting the de facto response - I remember the days of the list when it was a sin.) I have always preferred it. \n\nOn Friday, April 26, 2019, Evan Pickett > wrote:\n\nI'm reminded of a scene from The Insider, although Mr. Wolfe would probably not ever take this tone:\n\n https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/724e8b4b-0515-48cf-b7f2-e49501158ca4\n\n \n\nSurely any editor would know by now that Gene Wolfe chose his words with care?\n\n \n\nBest,\n\nEvan\n\n \n\n \n\n \n\nOn Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 3:48 PM Marc Aramini > wrote:\n\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Bailey Swartz", "address": "bsswartz at gmail.com" }, "date": "2019-04-27T02:55:57+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "<00e501d4fca4$172fed40$458fc7c0$@hwaet.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I like to have faith that Wolfe (who so carefully constructed each work)\nanticipated the possibility of posthumourous publication and made\nappropriate plans for that eventuality." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 7:51 PM Eric Bourland wrote:\nI am wondering what result we would get if, individually and noisily, we\nreached out to Tor editors and implored them to do basic proofreading on\nthe new novel, but make no changes in its substance, and publish it as Mr.\nWolfe wrote it. I am willing to act on this.\n\n\n\nEric\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n*******\n\nEric Bourland\n\neb at hwaet.com\n\nhttps://www.hwaet.com/\n\n\n\n\n\n*From:* Urth *On Behalf Of *Marc Aramini\n*Sent:* Friday, April 26, 2019 8:25 PM\n*To:* The Urth Mailing List \n*Subject:* Re: (urth) Interlibrary Loan\n\n\n\nOne hopes. Yes that’s how I feel about those who would edit Wolfe.he can\ncreate meaning in so many ways that every reader will certainly miss,\nespecially in his post 2000 work.\n\n(I’m glad cell phones made top posting the de facto response - I remember\nthe days of the list when it was a sin.) I have always preferred it.\n\nOn Friday, April 26, 2019, Evan Pickett wrote:\n\nI'm reminded of a scene from The Insider, although Mr. Wolfe would\nprobably not ever take this tone:\n\nhttps://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/724e8b4b-0515-48cf-b7f2-e49501158ca4\n\n\n\nSurely any editor would know by now that Gene Wolfe chose his words with\ncare?\n\n\n\nBest,\n\nEvan\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nOn Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 3:48 PM Marc Aramini \nwrote:\n\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<6B616C3C-C275-419F-9159-C5CF4723F3A0@bellsouth.net>", "from": { "name": "PAUL RYDEEN", "address": "rydeen at bellsouth.net" }, "date": "2019-04-27T22:08:56+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I've never been sure how much leeway an editor really has. Would they really cut whole scenes they didn't like? Do they redo things wholesale or just fix things and make recommendations? Since Wolfe picked this editor, can we rely on his pick? Even if Wolfe were alive, how much of the editor's influence would make it to publication? And if the answer is the editor has a lot of sway, how many of his edits would the author notice on review?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Apr 26, 2019, at 9:55 PM, Bailey Swartz wrote:\n\nI like to have faith that Wolfe (who so carefully constructed each work) anticipated the possibility of posthumourous publication and made appropriate plans for that eventuality." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 7:51 PM Eric Bourland wrote:\nI am wondering what result we would get if, individually and noisily, we reached out to Tor editors and implored them to do basic proofreading on the new novel, but make no changes in its substance, and publish it as Mr. Wolfe wrote it. I am willing to act on this.\n\n \n\nEric\n\n \n\n \n\n \n\n*******\n\nEric Bourland\n\neb at hwaet.com\n\nhttps://www.hwaet.com/\n\n \n\n \n\nFrom: Urth On Behalf Of Marc Aramini\nSent: Friday, April 26, 2019 8:25 PM\nTo: The Urth Mailing List \nSubject: Re: (urth) Interlibrary Loan\n\n \n\nOne hopes. Yes that’s how I feel about those who would edit Wolfe.he can create meaning in so many ways that every reader will certainly miss, especially in his post 2000 work. \n\n(I’m glad cell phones made top posting the de facto response - I remember the days of the list when it was a sin.) I have always preferred it. \n\nOn Friday, April 26, 2019, Evan Pickett wrote:\n\nI'm reminded of a scene from The Insider, although Mr. Wolfe would probably not ever take this tone:\n\nhttps://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/724e8b4b-0515-48cf-b7f2-e49501158ca4\n\n \n\nSurely any editor would know by now that Gene Wolfe chose his words with care?\n\n \n\nBest,\n\nEvan\n\n \n\n \n\n \n\nOn Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 3:48 PM Marc Aramini wrote:\n\n \n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2019-04-27T23:07:37+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "<6B616C3C-C275-419F-9159-C5CF4723F3A0@bellsouth.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Operation ares got clusterfucked by tens of thousands of words. They sure\nbutchered the last sentence of my story in the Wolfe tribute anthology lol.\nDamon knight changed the whole structure of trip trap and Wolfe agreed.\nHartwell left well enough alone." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Saturday, April 27, 2019, PAUL RYDEEN wrote:\nI've never been sure how much leeway an editor really has. Would they\nreally cut whole scenes they didn't like? Do they redo things wholesale or\njust fix things and make recommendations? Since Wolfe picked this editor,\ncan we rely on his pick? Even if Wolfe were alive, how much of the\neditor's influence would make it to publication? And if the answer is the\neditor has a lot of sway, how many of his edits would the author notice on\nreview?\n\n\n\nOn Apr 26, 2019, at 9:55 PM, Bailey Swartz wrote:\n\nI like to have faith that Wolfe (who so carefully constructed each work)\nanticipated the possibility of posthumourous publication and made\nappropriate plans for that eventuality.\n\nOn Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 7:51 PM Eric Bourland wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I am wondering what result we would get if, individually and noisily, we\nreached out to Tor editors and implored them to do basic proofreading on\nthe new novel, but make no changes in its substance, and publish it as Mr.\nWolfe wrote it. I am willing to act on this.\n\n\n\nEric\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n*******\n\nEric Bourland\n\neb at hwaet.com\n\nhttps://www.hwaet.com/\n\n\n\n\n\n*From:* Urth *On Behalf Of *Marc Aramini\n*Sent:* Friday, April 26, 2019 8:25 PM" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2019-04-27T23:16:33+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "<6B616C3C-C275-419F-9159-C5CF4723F3A0@bellsouth.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Copy editors managed to mess up the horn reveal in reprints of Long Sun and\nI insist the ace version of Fifth Head is the least corrupt. Wolfe was very\nmad about the switching of horn for I about two thirds of the way through\nexodus in reprints. He wanted the reveal at that dinner scene." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Saturday, April 27, 2019, PAUL RYDEEN wrote:\nI've never been sure how much leeway an editor really has. Would they\nreally cut whole scenes they didn't like? Do they redo things wholesale or\njust fix things and make recommendations? Since Wolfe picked this editor,\ncan we rely on his pick? Even if Wolfe were alive, how much of the\neditor's influence would make it to publication? And if the answer is the\neditor has a lot of sway, how many of his edits would the author notice on\nreview?\n\n\n\nOn Apr 26, 2019, at 9:55 PM, Bailey Swartz wrote:\n\nI like to have faith that Wolfe (who so carefully constructed each work)\nanticipated the possibility of posthumourous publication and made\nappropriate plans for that eventuality.\n\nOn Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 7:51 PM Eric Bourland wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I am wondering what result we would get if, individually and noisily, we\nreached out to Tor editors and implored them to do basic proofreading on\nthe new novel, but make no changes in its substance, and publish it as Mr.\nWolfe wrote it. I am willing to act on this.\n\n\n\nEric\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n*******\n\nEric Bourland\n\neb at hwaet.com\n\nhttps://www.hwaet.com/\n\n\n\n\n\n*From:* Urth *On Behalf Of *Marc Aramini\n*Sent:* Friday, April 26, 2019 8:25 PM" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1822391350.1515388.1556407350383@mail.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "John Barach", "address": "jbarach at aol.com" }, "date": "2019-04-27T23:22:30+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Marc wrote:\n?Operation ares got clusterfucked by tens of thousands of words." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Maybe those are the words that make sense of the allusions to chess in the book, allusions that are never really developed in the book as we have it today.\nJohn\n\n\n-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Marc Aramini \nTo: The Urth Mailing List \nSent: Sat, Apr 27, 2019 6:07 pm\nSubject: Re: (urth) Interlibrary Loan\n\nOperation ares got clusterfucked by tens of thousands of words. They sure butchered the last sentence of my story in the Wolfe tribute anthology lol. Damon knight changed the whole structure of trip trap and Wolfe agreed. Hartwell left well enough alone.\n\nOn Saturday, April 27, 2019, PAUL RYDEEN wrote:\n\nI've never been sure how much leeway an editor really has. Would they really cut whole scenes they didn't like? Do they redo things wholesale or just fix things and make recommendations? ? Since Wolfe picked this editor, can we rely on his pick? Even if Wolfe were alive, how much of the editor's influence would make it to publication? And if the answer is the editor has a lot of sway, how many of his edits would the author notice on review?\n\n\nOn Apr 26, 2019, at 9:55 PM, Bailey Swartz wrote:\n\n\nI like to have faith that Wolfe (who so carefully constructed each work) anticipated the possibility of posthumourous publication and made appropriate plans for that eventuality.\nOn Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 7:51 PM Eric Bourland wrote:\n\nI am wondering what result we would get if, individually and noisily, we reached out to Tor editors and implored them to do basic proofreading on the new novel, but make no changes in its substance, and publish it as Mr. Wolfe wrote it. I am willing to act on this. Eric???*******Eric Bourlandeb at hwaet.comhttps://www.hwaet.com/??From: Urth On Behalf Of Marc Aramini\nSent: Friday, April 26, 2019 8:25 PM\nTo: The Urth Mailing List \nSubject: Re: (urth) Interlibrary Loan?One hopes. Yes that’s how I feel about those who would edit Wolfe.he can create meaning in so many ways that every reader will certainly miss, especially in his post 2000 work. ?(I’m glad cell phones made top posting the de facto response - I remember the days of the list when it was a sin.) I have always preferred it.\n\nOn Friday, April 26, 2019, Evan Pickett wrote:\nI'm reminded of a scene from The Insider, although Mr. Wolfe would probably not ever take this tone:https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/ 724e8b4b-0515-48cf-b7f2- e49501158ca4?Surely any editor would know by now that Gene Wolfe chose his words with care??Best,Evan???On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 3:48 PM Marc Aramini wrote:\n\n\n______________________________ _________________\nUrth Mailing List\nTo post, write urth at urth.net\nSubscription/information: http://www.urth.net\n\n\n______________________________ _________________\nUrth Mailing List\nTo post, write urth at urth.net\nSubscription/information: http://www.urth.net" } ] }, { "message_id": "<030e4eb5-020c-e85f-262f-6870b472b2fa@bindweed.com>", "from": { "name": "Gerry Quinn", "address": "gerry at bindweed.com" }, "date": "2019-04-28T00:31:26+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 28/04/2019 00:07, Marc Aramini wrote:\nOperation ares got clusterfucked by tens of thousands of words. They \nsure butchered the last sentence of my story in the Wolfe tribute \nanthology lol. Damon knight changed the whole structure of trip trap \nand Wolfe agreed. Hartwell left well enough alone." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I've not read it, but my impression is that Operation Ares was generally \nconsidered a tyro effort even by Wolfe himself?\n\n- Gerry Quinn" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2019-04-28T02:54:06+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "<030e4eb5-020c-e85f-262f-6870b472b2fa@bindweed.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yeah but having twenty thousand words cut, ten by Wolfe and ten by another\neditor, sure didn’t help it." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Saturday, April 27, 2019, Gerry Quinn wrote:\n\nOn 28/04/2019 00:07, Marc Aramini wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Operation ares got clusterfucked by tens of thousands of words. They sure\nbutchered the last sentence of my story in the Wolfe tribute anthology lol.\nDamon knight changed the whole structure of trip trap and Wolfe agreed.\nHartwell left well enough alone.\n\nI've not read it, but my impression is that Operation Ares was generally\nconsidered a tyro effort even by Wolfe himself?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "- Gerry Quinn\n\n\n---\nThis email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.\nhttps://www.avast.com/antivirus\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<3C264674-EA6D-4B9B-836B-9FA72E158A6B@bellsouth.net>", "from": { "name": "PAUL RYDEEN", "address": "rydeen at bellsouth.net" }, "date": "2019-04-28T11:11:42+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Marc, I think you just negated your reasons for not wanting to write up ILL. It sounds like some level of editorial meddling is the norm. \n\nGoing back to the gentleman's question, is it even possible to publish a manuscript as submitted with no editing? Surely there has to be a check for grammar, punctuation, spelling, missing words, etc. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Apr 27, 2019, at 9:54 PM, Marc Aramini wrote:\n\nYeah but having twenty thousand words cut, ten by Wolfe and ten by another editor, sure didn’t help it. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Saturday, April 27, 2019, Gerry Quinn wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "On 28/04/2019 00:07, Marc Aramini wrote:\nOperation ares got clusterfucked by tens of thousands of words. They sure butchered the last sentence of my story in the Wolfe tribute anthology lol. Damon knight changed the whole structure of trip trap and Wolfe agreed. Hartwell left well enough alone." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I've not read it, but my impression is that Operation Ares was generally considered a tyro effort even by Wolfe himself?\n\n- Gerry Quinn\n\n\n---\nThis email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.\nhttps://www.avast.com/antivirus\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2019-04-28T13:35:09+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "<3C264674-EA6D-4B9B-836B-9FA72E158A6B@bellsouth.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Of course there has to be an editorial review. I just have a low estimation\nof the general competence of human beings, and Wolfe’s super tricky use of\npronouns makes his final review an essential part of the process now\nforever cut off. (Ex: my reading of the name many pink butterflies and\n“they did not know open hands meant no weapons” vs “Mary pink butterflies”\nand “he did not know open hands meant no weapons” makes my reading of Fifth\nHead significantly stronger for the Ace edition - and the amount of\nexegesis devoted to Mary Pink Butterflies, an erroneous change, is quite\nfrankly astonishing. There are three or so other obvious typos fixed in the\nace edition, including a beast which is obviously something like 1500\npounds being listed as like 15 pounds in every edition but the Ace, so I am\nconfident in the most pure text. Hartwell did not understand the blending\nof character into character in Wizard Knight as part of the dream\npalimpsest, so years and years ago when I thought about exploring how Setr\ncould be Garvaon in Wizard Knight someone wrote Hartwell to try to prove it\nwas a typo, which Hartwell believed it to be at that point. Nasty time on\nthe list. It wasn’t a typo, though I wouldn’t understand how Gavaon could\nbe Setr until more than a decade later.) The editorial changes to my\ncomplete last sentence in Soldier of Mercy made it a nonsensical fragment,\nwhich irks me to this day. Of course if I had a lengthier publication\nhistory that would fade, but I can probably never expect another Tor or\nmajor publishing house one.\n\nOperation Ares was butchered before Wolfe was a name. I hope to avoid that\nfor his last.\n\nHowever, what was the state of Wolfe’s manuscript?\nThis is a consideration I am in no position to judge without reading it\nabout five or six times in a row." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sunday, April 28, 2019, PAUL RYDEEN wrote:\nMarc, I think you just negated your reasons for not wanting to write up\nILL. It sounds like some level of editorial meddling is the norm.\n\nGoing back to the gentleman's question, is it even possible to publish a\nmanuscript as submitted with no editing? Surely there has to be a check\nfor grammar, punctuation, spelling, missing words, etc.\n\n\n\nOn Apr 27, 2019, at 9:54 PM, Marc Aramini wrote:\n\nYeah but having twenty thousand words cut, ten by Wolfe and ten by another\neditor, sure didn’t help it.\n\nOn Saturday, April 27, 2019, Gerry Quinn wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On 28/04/2019 00:07, Marc Aramini wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Operation ares got clusterfucked by tens of thousands of words. They\nsure butchered the last sentence of my story in the Wolfe tribute anthology\nlol. Damon knight changed the whole structure of trip trap and Wolfe\nagreed. Hartwell left well enough alone.\n\nI've not read it, but my impression is that Operation Ares was generally\nconsidered a tyro effort even by Wolfe himself?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "- Gerry Quinn\n\n\n---\nThis email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.\nhttps://www.avast.com/antivirus\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<0622A860-2F5E-4874-8F15-DDDB0363F186@bellsouth.net>", "from": { "name": "PAUL RYDEEN", "address": "rydeen at bellsouth.net" }, "date": "2019-04-28T14:59:21+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Ok, point taken. I'm still excited to know that I'll be able to read ILL after all, even without Wolfe's final review of the edited text. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Apr 28, 2019, at 8:35 AM, Marc Aramini wrote:\n\nOf course there has to be an editorial review. I just have a low estimation of the general competence of human beings, and Wolfe’s super tricky use of pronouns makes his final review an essential part of the process now forever cut off. (Ex: my reading of the name many pink butterflies and “they did not know open hands meant no weapons” vs “Mary pink butterflies” and “he did not know open hands meant no weapons” makes my reading of Fifth Head significantly stronger for the Ace edition - and the amount of exegesis devoted to Mary Pink Butterflies, an erroneous change, is quite frankly astonishing. There are three or so other obvious typos fixed in the ace edition, including a beast which is obviously something like 1500 pounds being listed as like 15 pounds in every edition but the Ace, so I am confident in the most pure text. Hartwell did not understand the blending of character into character in Wizard Knight as part of the dream palimpsest, so years and years ago when I thought about exploring how Setr could be Garvaon in Wizard Knight someone wrote Hartwell to try to prove it was a typo, which Hartwell believed it to be at that point. Nasty time on the list. It wasn’t a typo, though I wouldn’t understand how Gavaon could be Setr until more than a decade later.) The editorial changes to my complete last sentence in Soldier of Mercy made it a nonsensical fragment, which irks me to this day. Of course if I had a lengthier publication history that would fade, but I can probably never expect another Tor or major publishing house one.\n\nOperation Ares was butchered before Wolfe was a name. I hope to avoid that for his last. \n\nHowever, what was the state of Wolfe’s manuscript?\nThis is a consideration I am in no position to judge without reading it about five or six times in a row. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Sunday, April 28, 2019, PAUL RYDEEN wrote:\nMarc, I think you just negated your reasons for not wanting to write up ILL. It sounds like some level of editorial meddling is the norm. \n\nGoing back to the gentleman's question, is it even possible to publish a manuscript as submitted with no editing? Surely there has to be a check for grammar, punctuation, spelling, missing words, etc. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "On Apr 27, 2019, at 9:54 PM, Marc Aramini wrote:\n\nYeah but having twenty thousand words cut, ten by Wolfe and ten by another editor, sure didn’t help it. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "On Saturday, April 27, 2019, Gerry Quinn wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "On 28/04/2019 00:07, Marc Aramini wrote:\nOperation ares got clusterfucked by tens of thousands of words. They sure butchered the last sentence of my story in the Wolfe tribute anthology lol. Damon knight changed the whole structure of trip trap and Wolfe agreed. Hartwell left well enough alone." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "I've not read it, but my impression is that Operation Ares was generally considered a tyro effort even by Wolfe himself?\n\n- Gerry Quinn\n\n\n---\nThis email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.\nhttps://www.avast.com/antivirus\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2019-04-28T15:15:57+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "<0622A860-2F5E-4874-8F15-DDDB0363F186@bellsouth.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes me too. Hopefully there are some callbacks to the most inexplicable\nparts of A Borrowed Man. They spend ten pages thinking about how Conrad Sr\ngot his money and then Ern is like, maybe I’ll come back to that, or maybe\nI won’t. Definitely the most frustrating part of Wolfe’s late work is\ntrying to determine what can be discerned and what is outside the realm of\ninterpolation. The manner in which Ern deduces the true identity of his out\nof work cop friend is one of the most unbelievable things Wolfe ever out to\npaper - are we supposed to believe it?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sunday, April 28, 2019, PAUL RYDEEN wrote:\nOk, point taken. I'm still excited to know that I'll be able to read ILL\nafter all, even without Wolfe's final review of the edited text.\n\n\n\nOn Apr 28, 2019, at 8:35 AM, Marc Aramini wrote:\n\nOf course there has to be an editorial review. I just have a low\nestimation of the general competence of human beings, and Wolfe’s super\ntricky use of pronouns makes his final review an essential part of the\nprocess now forever cut off. (Ex: my reading of the name many pink\nbutterflies and “they did not know open hands meant no weapons” vs “Mary\npink butterflies” and “he did not know open hands meant no weapons” makes\nmy reading of Fifth Head significantly stronger for the Ace edition - and\nthe amount of exegesis devoted to Mary Pink Butterflies, an erroneous\nchange, is quite frankly astonishing. There are three or so other obvious\ntypos fixed in the ace edition, including a beast which is obviously\nsomething like 1500 pounds being listed as like 15 pounds in every edition\nbut the Ace, so I am confident in the most pure text. Hartwell did not\nunderstand the blending of character into character in Wizard Knight as\npart of the dream palimpsest, so years and years ago when I thought about\nexploring how Setr could be Garvaon in Wizard Knight someone wrote Hartwell\nto try to prove it was a typo, which Hartwell believed it to be at that\npoint. Nasty time on the list. It wasn’t a typo, though I wouldn’t\nunderstand how Gavaon could be Setr until more than a decade later.) The\neditorial changes to my complete last sentence in Soldier of Mercy made it\na nonsensical fragment, which irks me to this day. Of course if I had a\nlengthier publication history that would fade, but I can probably never\nexpect another Tor or major publishing house one.\n\nOperation Ares was butchered before Wolfe was a name. I hope to avoid that\nfor his last.\n\nHowever, what was the state of Wolfe’s manuscript?\nThis is a consideration I am in no position to judge without reading it\nabout five or six times in a row.\n\n\nOn Sunday, April 28, 2019, PAUL RYDEEN wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Marc, I think you just negated your reasons for not wanting to write up\nILL. It sounds like some level of editorial meddling is the norm.\n\nGoing back to the gentleman's question, is it even possible to publish a\nmanuscript as submitted with no editing? Surely there has to be a check\nfor grammar, punctuation, spelling, missing words, etc.\n\n\n\nOn Apr 27, 2019, at 9:54 PM, Marc Aramini wrote:\n\nYeah but having twenty thousand words cut, ten by Wolfe and ten by\nanother editor, sure didn’t help it.\n\nOn Saturday, April 27, 2019, Gerry Quinn wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "On 28/04/2019 00:07, Marc Aramini wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "Operation ares got clusterfucked by tens of thousands of words. They\nsure butchered the last sentence of my story in the Wolfe tribute anthology\nlol. Damon knight changed the whole structure of trip trap and Wolfe\nagreed. Hartwell left well enough alone.\n\nI've not read it, but my impression is that Operation Ares was\ngenerally considered a tyro effort even by Wolfe himself?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "- Gerry Quinn\n\n\n---\nThis email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.\nhttps://www.avast.com/antivirus\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Ab de Vos", "address": "foxyab at casema.nl" }, "date": "2019-04-28T15:16:59+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I have the Charles Scribner's Sons edition of Fifth Head (New York, \n1972). Is that one corrupted as well?\n\nOp 28-4-2019 om 01:16 schreef Marc Aramini:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Copy editors managed to mess up the horn reveal in reprints of Long \nSun and I insist the ace version of Fifth Head is the least corrupt. \nWolfe was very mad about the switching of horn for I about two thirds \nof the way through exodus in reprints. He wanted the reveal at that \ndinner scene.\n\nOn Saturday, April 27, 2019, PAUL RYDEEN > wrote:\n\n I've never been sure how much leeway an editor really has. Would\n they really cut whole scenes they didn't like? Do they redo\n things wholesale or just fix things and make recommendations? ?\n Since Wolfe picked this editor, can we rely on his pick? Even if\n Wolfe were alive, how much of the editor's influence would make it\n to publication? And if the answer is the editor has a lot of\n sway, how many of his edits would the author notice on review?\n\n\n\n On Apr 26, 2019, at 9:55 PM, Bailey Swartz > wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": " I like to have faith that Wolfe (who so carefully constructed\n each work) anticipated the possibility of posthumourous\n publication and made appropriate plans for that eventuality.\n\n On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 7:51 PM Eric Bourland > wrote:\n\n I am wondering what result we would get if, individually and\n noisily, we reached out to Tor editors and implored them to\n do basic proofreading on the new novel, but make no changes\n in its substance, and publish it as Mr. Wolfe wrote it. I am\n willing to act on this.\n\n Eric\n\n *******\n\n Eric Bourland\n\n eb at hwaet.com \n\n https://www.hwaet.com/\n\n *From:* Urth > *On Behalf Of *Marc Aramini\n *Sent:* Friday, April 26, 2019 8:25 PM" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2019-04-28T15:21:46+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes it was fixed for the ace but all subsequent printings used the scrubber\ntext" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sunday, April 28, 2019, Ab de Vos wrote:\nI have the Charles Scribner's Sons edition of Fifth Head (New York, 1972).\nIs that one corrupted as well?\nOp 28-4-2019 om 01:16 schreef Marc Aramini:\n\nCopy editors managed to mess up the horn reveal in reprints of Long Sun\nand I insist the ace version of Fifth Head is the least corrupt. Wolfe was\nvery mad about the switching of horn for I about two thirds of the way\nthrough exodus in reprints. He wanted the reveal at that dinner scene.\n\nOn Saturday, April 27, 2019, PAUL RYDEEN wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I've never been sure how much leeway an editor really has. Would they\nreally cut whole scenes they didn't like? Do they redo things wholesale or\njust fix things and make recommendations? Since Wolfe picked this editor,\ncan we rely on his pick? Even if Wolfe were alive, how much of the\neditor's influence would make it to publication? And if the answer is the\neditor has a lot of sway, how many of his edits would the author notice on\nreview?\n\n\n\nOn Apr 26, 2019, at 9:55 PM, Bailey Swartz wrote:\n\nI like to have faith that Wolfe (who so carefully constructed each work)\nanticipated the possibility of posthumourous publication and made\nappropriate plans for that eventuality.\n\nOn Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 7:51 PM Eric Bourland wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "I am wondering what result we would get if, individually and noisily, we\nreached out to Tor editors and implored them to do basic proofreading on\nthe new novel, but make no changes in its substance, and publish it as Mr.\nWolfe wrote it. I am willing to act on this.\n\n\n\nEric\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n*******\n\nEric Bourland\n\neb at hwaet.com\n\nhttps://www.hwaet.com/\n\n\n\n\n\n*From:* Urth *On Behalf Of *Marc Aramini\n*Sent:* Friday, April 26, 2019 8:25 PM" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2019-04-28T15:22:19+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "scribner- autocorrect is an odious presence most of the time" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sunday, April 28, 2019, Marc Aramini wrote:\nYes it was fixed for the ace but all subsequent printings used the\nscrubber text\n\nOn Sunday, April 28, 2019, Ab de Vos wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I have the Charles Scribner's Sons edition of Fifth Head (New York,\n1972). Is that one corrupted as well?\nOp 28-4-2019 om 01:16 schreef Marc Aramini:\n\nCopy editors managed to mess up the horn reveal in reprints of Long Sun\nand I insist the ace version of Fifth Head is the least corrupt. Wolfe was\nvery mad about the switching of horn for I about two thirds of the way\nthrough exodus in reprints. He wanted the reveal at that dinner scene.\n\nOn Saturday, April 27, 2019, PAUL RYDEEN wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "I've never been sure how much leeway an editor really has. Would they\nreally cut whole scenes they didn't like? Do they redo things wholesale or\njust fix things and make recommendations? Since Wolfe picked this editor,\ncan we rely on his pick? Even if Wolfe were alive, how much of the\neditor's influence would make it to publication? And if the answer is the\neditor has a lot of sway, how many of his edits would the author notice on\nreview?\n\n\n\nOn Apr 26, 2019, at 9:55 PM, Bailey Swartz wrote:\n\nI like to have faith that Wolfe (who so carefully constructed each work)\nanticipated the possibility of posthumourous publication and made\nappropriate plans for that eventuality.\n\nOn Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 7:51 PM Eric Bourland wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "I am wondering what result we would get if, individually and noisily,\nwe reached out to Tor editors and implored them to do basic proofreading on\nthe new novel, but make no changes in its substance, and publish it as Mr.\nWolfe wrote it. I am willing to act on this.\n\n\n\nEric\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n*******\n\nEric Bourland\n\neb at hwaet.com\n\nhttps://www.hwaet.com/\n\n\n\n\n\n*From:* Urth *On Behalf Of *Marc Aramini\n*Sent:* Friday, April 26, 2019 8:25 PM" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2019-04-28T15:25:01+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "See page 161- “it must have weighed a good fifteen pounds” - I have had\ntranslators contact me and had to explain it should be fifteen hundred\npounds." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sunday, April 28, 2019, Ab de Vos wrote:\nI have the Charles Scribner's Sons edition of Fifth Head (New York, 1972).\nIs that one corrupted as well?\nOp 28-4-2019 om 01:16 schreef Marc Aramini:\n\nCopy editors managed to mess up the horn reveal in reprints of Long Sun\nand I insist the ace version of Fifth Head is the least corrupt. Wolfe was\nvery mad about the switching of horn for I about two thirds of the way\nthrough exodus in reprints. He wanted the reveal at that dinner scene.\n\nOn Saturday, April 27, 2019, PAUL RYDEEN wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I've never been sure how much leeway an editor really has. Would they\nreally cut whole scenes they didn't like? Do they redo things wholesale or\njust fix things and make recommendations? Since Wolfe picked this editor,\ncan we rely on his pick? Even if Wolfe were alive, how much of the\neditor's influence would make it to publication? And if the answer is the\neditor has a lot of sway, how many of his edits would the author notice on\nreview?\n\n\n\nOn Apr 26, 2019, at 9:55 PM, Bailey Swartz wrote:\n\nI like to have faith that Wolfe (who so carefully constructed each work)\nanticipated the possibility of posthumourous publication and made\nappropriate plans for that eventuality.\n\nOn Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 7:51 PM Eric Bourland wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "I am wondering what result we would get if, individually and noisily, we\nreached out to Tor editors and implored them to do basic proofreading on\nthe new novel, but make no changes in its substance, and publish it as Mr.\nWolfe wrote it. I am willing to act on this.\n\n\n\nEric\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n*******\n\nEric Bourland\n\neb at hwaet.com\n\nhttps://www.hwaet.com/\n\n\n\n\n\n*From:* Urth *On Behalf Of *Marc Aramini\n*Sent:* Friday, April 26, 2019 8:25 PM" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "PAUL RYDEEN", "address": "rydeen at bellsouth.net" }, "date": "2019-04-28T20:58:33+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The Gollancz SF Masterworks ebook has \"fifteen\" (spelled out). " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Apr 28, 2019, at 10:25 AM, Marc Aramini wrote:\n\nSee page 161- “it must have weighed a good fifteen pounds” - I have had translators contact me and had to explain it should be fifteen hundred pounds. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Sunday, April 28, 2019, Ab de Vos wrote:\nI have the Charles Scribner's Sons edition of Fifth Head (New York, 1972). Is that one corrupted as well?\n\nOp 28-4-2019 om 01:16 schreef Marc Aramini:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Copy editors managed to mess up the horn reveal in reprints of Long Sun and I insist the ace version of Fifth Head is the least corrupt. Wolfe was very mad about the switching of horn for I about two thirds of the way through exodus in reprints. He wanted the reveal at that dinner scene. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "On Saturday, April 27, 2019, PAUL RYDEEN wrote:\nI've never been sure how much leeway an editor really has. Would they really cut whole scenes they didn't like? Do they redo things wholesale or just fix things and make recommendations? Since Wolfe picked this editor, can we rely on his pick? Even if Wolfe were alive, how much of the editor's influence would make it to publication? And if the answer is the editor has a lot of sway, how many of his edits would the author notice on review?\n\n\n\nOn Apr 26, 2019, at 9:55 PM, Bailey Swartz wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "I like to have faith that Wolfe (who so carefully constructed each work) anticipated the possibility of posthumourous publication and made appropriate plans for that eventuality." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 6, "text": "On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 7:51 PM Eric Bourland wrote:\nI am wondering what result we would get if, individually and noisily, we reached out to Tor editors and implored them to do basic proofreading on the new novel, but make no changes in its substance, and publish it as Mr. Wolfe wrote it. I am willing to act on this.\n\n \n\nEric\n\n \n\n \n\n \n\n*******\n\nEric Bourland\n\neb at hwaet.com\n\nhttps://www.hwaet.com/\n\n \n\n \n\nFrom: Urth On Behalf Of Marc Aramini\nSent: Friday, April 26, 2019 8:25 PM\nTo: The Urth Mailing List \nSubject: Re: (urth) Interlibrary Loan\n\n \n\nOne hopes. Yes that’s how I feel about those who would edit Wolfe.he can create meaning in so many ways that every reader will certainly miss, especially in his post 2000 work. \n\n(I’m glad cell phones made top posting the de facto response - I remember the days of the list when it was a sin.) I have always preferred it. \n\nOn Friday, April 26, 2019, Evan Pickett wrote:\n\nI'm reminded of a scene from The Insider, although Mr. Wolfe would probably not ever take this tone:\n\nhttps://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/724e8b4b-0515-48cf-b7f2-e49501158ca4\n\n \n\nSurely any editor would know by now that Gene Wolfe chose his words with care?\n\n \n\nBest,\n\nEvan\n\n \n\n \n\n \n\nOn Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 3:48 PM Marc Aramini wrote:\n\n \n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2019-04-28T21:02:01+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes every edition but the Ace uses the Scribner flawed printing." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sun, Apr 28, 2019 at 1:58 PM PAUL RYDEEN wrote:\nThe Gollancz SF Masterworks ebook has \"fifteen\" (spelled out).\n\n\nOn Apr 28, 2019, at 10:25 AM, Marc Aramini wrote:\n\nSee page 161- “it must have weighed a good fifteen pounds” - I have had\ntranslators contact me and had to explain it should be fifteen hundred\npounds.\n\nOn Sunday, April 28, 2019, Ab de Vos wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I have the Charles Scribner's Sons edition of Fifth Head (New York,\n1972). Is that one corrupted as well?\nOp 28-4-2019 om 01:16 schreef Marc Aramini:\n\nCopy editors managed to mess up the horn reveal in reprints of Long Sun\nand I insist the ace version of Fifth Head is the least corrupt. Wolfe was\nvery mad about the switching of horn for I about two thirds of the way\nthrough exodus in reprints. He wanted the reveal at that dinner scene.\n\nOn Saturday, April 27, 2019, PAUL RYDEEN wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "I've never been sure how much leeway an editor really has. Would they\nreally cut whole scenes they didn't like? Do they redo things wholesale or\njust fix things and make recommendations? Since Wolfe picked this editor,\ncan we rely on his pick? Even if Wolfe were alive, how much of the\neditor's influence would make it to publication? And if the answer is the\neditor has a lot of sway, how many of his edits would the author notice on\nreview?\n\n\n\nOn Apr 26, 2019, at 9:55 PM, Bailey Swartz wrote:\n\nI like to have faith that Wolfe (who so carefully constructed each work)\nanticipated the possibility of posthumourous publication and made\nappropriate plans for that eventuality.\n\nOn Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 7:51 PM Eric Bourland wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "I am wondering what result we would get if, individually and noisily,\nwe reached out to Tor editors and implored them to do basic proofreading on\nthe new novel, but make no changes in its substance, and publish it as Mr.\nWolfe wrote it. I am willing to act on this.\n\n\n\nEric\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n*******\n\nEric Bourland\n\neb at hwaet.com\n\nhttps://www.hwaet.com/\n\n\n\n\n\n*From:* Urth *On Behalf Of *Marc Aramini\n*Sent:* Friday, April 26, 2019 8:25 PM" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1277801494.1810872.1556492348057@mail.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "John Barach", "address": "jbarach at aol.com" }, "date": "2019-04-28T22:59:08+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You do point out all the typos, etc., you've been able to catch in your book, right, Marc? (I hope!? I think I gave away my Ace Fifth Head when I got a shiny new one, unfortunately.)\nJohn\n\n\n-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Marc Aramini \nTo: The Urth Mailing List \nSent: Sun, Apr 28, 2019 4:02 pm\nSubject: Re: (urth) Interlibrary Loan\n\nYes every edition but the Ace uses the Scribner flawed printing.\nOn Sun, Apr 28, 2019 at 1:58 PM PAUL RYDEEN wrote:\n\nThe Gollancz SF Masterworks ebook has \"fifteen\" (spelled out). ?\n\nOn Apr 28, 2019, at 10:25 AM, Marc Aramini wrote:\n\n\nSee page 161- “it must have weighed a good fifteen pounds” - I have had translators contact me and had to explain it should be fifteen hundred pounds.\n\nOn Sunday, April 28, 2019, Ab de Vos wrote:\n\n I have the Charles Scribner's Sons edition of Fifth Head (New York, 1972). Is that one corrupted as well? Op 28-4-2019 om 01:16 schreef Marc Aramini:\n \n Copy editors managed to mess up the horn reveal in reprints of Long Sun and I insist the ace version of Fifth Head is the least corrupt. Wolfe was very mad about the switching of horn for I about two thirds of the way through exodus in reprints. He wanted the reveal at that dinner scene.\n \n On Saturday, April 27, 2019, PAUL RYDEEN wrote:\n \n I've never been sure how much leeway an editor really has. Would they really cut whole scenes they didn't like? Do they redo things wholesale or just fix things and make recommendations? ? Since Wolfe picked this editor, can we rely on his pick? Even if Wolfe were alive, how much of the editor's influence would make it to publication? And if the answer is the editor has a lot of sway, how many of his edits would the author notice on review? \n \n \n On Apr 26, 2019, at 9:55 PM, Bailey Swartz wrote:\n \n \n I like to have faith that Wolfe (who so carefully constructed each work) anticipated the possibility of posthumourous publication and made appropriate plans for that eventuality. \n On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 7:51 PM Eric Bourland wrote:\n \n I am wondering what result we would get if, individually and noisily, we reached out to Tor editors and implored them to do basic proofreading on the new novel, but make no changes in its substance, and publish it as Mr. Wolfe wrote it. I am willing to act on this. — Eric ? ? ? ******* Eric Bourland eb at hwaet.com https://www.hwaet.com/ ? ? From: Urth On Behalf Of Marc Aramini\n Sent: Friday, April 26, 2019 8:25 PM\n To: The Urth Mailing List \n Subject: Re: (urth) Interlibrary Loan — One hopes. Yes that’s how I feel about those who would edit Wolfe.he can create meaning in so many ways that every reader will certainly miss, especially in his post 2000 work. ? (I’m glad cell phones made top posting the de facto response - I remember the days of the list when it was a sin.) I have always preferred it.\n \n On Friday, April 26, 2019, Evan Pickett wrote: \n I'm reminded of a scene from The Insider, although Mr. Wolfe would probably not ever take this tone: https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/724e8b4b-0515-48cf-b7f2-e49501158ca4 ? Surely any editor would know by now that Gene Wolfe chose his words with care? ? Best, Evan ? ? ? On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 3:48 PM Marc Aramini wrote: \n \n \n _______________________________________________\n Urth Mailing List\n To post, write urth at urth.net\n Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net\n \n \n _______________________________________________\n Urth Mailing List\n To post, write urth at urth.net\n Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net \n \n \n _______________________________________________\nUrth Mailing List\nTo post, write urth at urth.net\nSubscription/information: http://www.urth.net \n " } ] }, { "message_id": "<38792108.1792300.1556492994158@mail.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "John Barach", "address": "jbarach at aol.com" }, "date": "2019-04-28T23:09:54+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "<1277801494.1810872.1556492348057@mail.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Here's an example of how precise Wolfe could be when it came to details in his stories.\nThe short story \"Frostfree\" was commissioned originally for a Festschrift I was editing in honor of long-time Urth member, James Jordan. When I did the copy editing on the story, I noticed that?\"Frostfree\" is not, in fact, the name written on the fridge. “It says \"frostfree\" -- lowercase.” And deliberately so.\nI asked Wolfe about it and he replied,?\"The \"frostfree\" on the freezer door is not a name, it's an ad claim. Stet.\"\n\"Stet.\"? That's the word that I'd like to characterize all of Wolfe's future publications.?\nIt's one thing for an editor to catch what he thinks might be a typo and run it past Wolfe for verification. But it's another thing to change what Wolfe wanted, even if it's as minor as capitalizing the word on a fridge. Apparently that mattered to him.\n\nJohn\n\n-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Marc Aramini \nTo: The Urth Mailing List \nSent: Sun, Apr 28, 2019 4:02 pm\nSubject: Re: (urth) Interlibrary Loan\n\nYes every edition but the Ace uses the Scribner flawed printing.\nOn Sun, Apr 28, 2019 at 1:58 PM PAUL RYDEEN wrote:\n\nThe Gollancz SF Masterworks ebook has \"fifteen\" (spelled out). ?\n\nOn Apr 28, 2019, at 10:25 AM, Marc Aramini wrote:\n\n\nSee page 161- “it must have weighed a good fifteen pounds” - I have had translators contact me and had to explain it should be fifteen hundred pounds.\n\nOn Sunday, April 28, 2019, Ab de Vos wrote:\n\n I have the Charles Scribner's Sons edition of Fifth Head (New York, 1972). Is that one corrupted as well? Op 28-4-2019 om 01:16 schreef Marc Aramini:\n \n Copy editors managed to mess up the horn reveal in reprints of Long Sun and I insist the ace version of Fifth Head is the least corrupt. Wolfe was very mad about the switching of horn for I about two thirds of the way through exodus in reprints. He wanted the reveal at that dinner scene.\n \n On Saturday, April 27, 2019, PAUL RYDEEN wrote:\n \n I've never been sure how much leeway an editor really has. Would they really cut whole scenes they didn't like? Do they redo things wholesale or just fix things and make recommendations? ? Since Wolfe picked this editor, can we rely on his pick? Even if Wolfe were alive, how much of the editor's influence would make it to publication? And if the answer is the editor has a lot of sway, how many of his edits would the author notice on review? \n \n \n On Apr 26, 2019, at 9:55 PM, Bailey Swartz wrote:\n \n \n I like to have faith that Wolfe (who so carefully constructed each work) anticipated the possibility of posthumourous publication and made appropriate plans for that eventuality. \n On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 7:51 PM Eric Bourland wrote:\n \n I am wondering what result we would get if, individually and noisily, we reached out to Tor editors and implored them to do basic proofreading on the new novel, but make no changes in its substance, and publish it as Mr. Wolfe wrote it. I am willing to act on this. — Eric ? ? ? ******* Eric Bourland eb at hwaet.com https://www.hwaet.com/ ? ? From: Urth On Behalf Of Marc Aramini\n Sent: Friday, April 26, 2019 8:25 PM\n To: The Urth Mailing List \n Subject: Re: (urth) Interlibrary Loan — One hopes. Yes that’s how I feel about those who would edit Wolfe.he can create meaning in so many ways that every reader will certainly miss, especially in his post 2000 work. ? (I’m glad cell phones made top posting the de facto response - I remember the days of the list when it was a sin.) I have always preferred it.\n \n On Friday, April 26, 2019, Evan Pickett wrote: \n I'm reminded of a scene from The Insider, although Mr. Wolfe would probably not ever take this tone: https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/724e8b4b-0515-48cf-b7f2-e49501158ca4 ? Surely any editor would know by now that Gene Wolfe chose his words with care? ? Best, Evan ? ? ? On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 3:48 PM Marc Aramini wrote: \n \n \n _______________________________________________\n Urth Mailing List\n To post, write urth at urth.net\n Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net\n \n \n _______________________________________________\n Urth Mailing List\n To post, write urth at urth.net\n Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net \n \n \n _______________________________________________\nUrth Mailing List\nTo post, write urth at urth.net\nSubscription/information: http://www.urth.net \n " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dr. Bloodmoney", "address": "spaulmcdonald at gmail.com" }, "date": "2019-04-29T23:11:39+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think that a polite letter to Tor wouldn't hurt anyone. As long as there\nis a chance of accidental editorial errors occurring we can at there very\nleast try, in our small way, to prevent it." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sun, Apr 28, 2019 at 2:02 PM Marc Aramini wrote:\nYes every edition but the Ace uses the Scribner flawed printing.\n\nOn Sun, Apr 28, 2019 at 1:58 PM PAUL RYDEEN wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "The Gollancz SF Masterworks ebook has \"fifteen\" (spelled out).\n\n\nOn Apr 28, 2019, at 10:25 AM, Marc Aramini wrote:\n\nSee page 161- “it must have weighed a good fifteen pounds” - I have had\ntranslators contact me and had to explain it should be fifteen hundred\npounds.\n\nOn Sunday, April 28, 2019, Ab de Vos wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "I have the Charles Scribner's Sons edition of Fifth Head (New York,\n1972). Is that one corrupted as well?\nOp 28-4-2019 om 01:16 schreef Marc Aramini:\n\nCopy editors managed to mess up the horn reveal in reprints of Long Sun\nand I insist the ace version of Fifth Head is the least corrupt. Wolfe was\nvery mad about the switching of horn for I about two thirds of the way\nthrough exodus in reprints. He wanted the reveal at that dinner scene.\n\nOn Saturday, April 27, 2019, PAUL RYDEEN wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "I've never been sure how much leeway an editor really has. Would they\nreally cut whole scenes they didn't like? Do they redo things wholesale or\njust fix things and make recommendations? Since Wolfe picked this editor,\ncan we rely on his pick? Even if Wolfe were alive, how much of the\neditor's influence would make it to publication? And if the answer is the\neditor has a lot of sway, how many of his edits would the author notice on\nreview?\n\n\n\nOn Apr 26, 2019, at 9:55 PM, Bailey Swartz wrote:\n\nI like to have faith that Wolfe (who so carefully constructed each\nwork) anticipated the possibility of posthumourous publication and made\nappropriate plans for that eventuality.\n\nOn Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 7:51 PM Eric Bourland wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "I am wondering what result we would get if, individually and noisily,\nwe reached out to Tor editors and implored them to do basic proofreading on\nthe new novel, but make no changes in its substance, and publish it as Mr.\nWolfe wrote it. I am willing to act on this.\n\n\n\nEric\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n*******\n\nEric Bourland\n\neb at hwaet.com\n\nhttps://www.hwaet.com/\n\n\n\n\n\n*From:* Urth *On Behalf Of *Marc Aramini\n*Sent:* Friday, April 26, 2019 8:25 PM" } ] }, { "message_id": "<986585E3-EE0A-4B1D-BFDB-0081F3FC6D9A@bellsouth.net>", "from": { "name": "PAUL RYDEEN", "address": "rydeen at bellsouth.net" }, "date": "2019-04-30T11:18:12+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Does anyone here have a Twitter account? That might be a better way to express our concern. It would have more visibility than a letter and we should get a response (a response would not be guaranteed with a letter). " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Apr 29, 2019, at 6:11 PM, Dr. Bloodmoney wrote:\n\nI think that a polite letter to Tor wouldn't hurt anyone. As long as there is a chance of accidental editorial errors occurring we can at there very least try, in our small way, to prevent it." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Sun, Apr 28, 2019 at 2:02 PM Marc Aramini wrote:\nYes every edition but the Ace uses the Scribner flawed printing. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "On Sun, Apr 28, 2019 at 1:58 PM PAUL RYDEEN wrote:\nThe Gollancz SF Masterworks ebook has \"fifteen\" (spelled out). " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "On Apr 28, 2019, at 10:25 AM, Marc Aramini wrote:\n\nSee page 161- “it must have weighed a good fifteen pounds” - I have had translators contact me and had to explain it should be fifteen hundred pounds. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "On Sunday, April 28, 2019, Ab de Vos wrote:\nI have the Charles Scribner's Sons edition of Fifth Head (New York, 1972). Is that one corrupted as well?\n\nOp 28-4-2019 om 01:16 schreef Marc Aramini:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 6, "text": "Copy editors managed to mess up the horn reveal in reprints of Long Sun and I insist the ace version of Fifth Head is the least corrupt. Wolfe was very mad about the switching of horn for I about two thirds of the way through exodus in reprints. He wanted the reveal at that dinner scene. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 7, "text": "On Saturday, April 27, 2019, PAUL RYDEEN wrote:\nI've never been sure how much leeway an editor really has. Would they really cut whole scenes they didn't like? Do they redo things wholesale or just fix things and make recommendations? Since Wolfe picked this editor, can we rely on his pick? Even if Wolfe were alive, how much of the editor's influence would make it to publication? And if the answer is the editor has a lot of sway, how many of his edits would the author notice on review?\n\n\n\nOn Apr 26, 2019, at 9:55 PM, Bailey Swartz wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 8, "text": "I like to have faith that Wolfe (who so carefully constructed each work) anticipated the possibility of posthumourous publication and made appropriate plans for that eventuality." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 9, "text": "On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 7:51 PM Eric Bourland wrote:\nI am wondering what result we would get if, individually and noisily, we reached out to Tor editors and implored them to do basic proofreading on the new novel, but make no changes in its substance, and publish it as Mr. Wolfe wrote it. I am willing to act on this.\n\n \n\nEric\n\n \n\n \n\n \n\n*******\n\nEric Bourland\n\neb at hwaet.com\n\nhttps://www.hwaet.com/\n\n \n\n \n\nFrom: Urth On Behalf Of Marc Aramini\nSent: Friday, April 26, 2019 8:25 PM\nTo: The Urth Mailing List \nSubject: Re: (urth) Interlibrary Loan\n\n \n\nOne hopes. Yes that’s how I feel about those who would edit Wolfe.he can create meaning in so many ways that every reader will certainly miss, especially in his post 2000 work. \n\n(I’m glad cell phones made top posting the de facto response - I remember the days of the list when it was a sin.) I have always preferred it. \n\nOn Friday, April 26, 2019, Evan Pickett wrote:\n\nI'm reminded of a scene from The Insider, although Mr. Wolfe would probably not ever take this tone:\n\nhttps://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/724e8b4b-0515-48cf-b7f2-e49501158ca4\n\n \n\nSurely any editor would know by now that Gene Wolfe chose his words with care?\n\n \n\nBest,\n\nEvan\n\n \n\n \n\n \n\nOn Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 3:48 PM Marc Aramini wrote:\n\n \n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at gmail.com" }, "date": "2019-04-30T11:35:41+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "<986585E3-EE0A-4B1D-BFDB-0081F3FC6D9A@bellsouth.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I guess I will formulate a sample one and see if we can agree on the\nverbiage. Have to make the tone just right." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tuesday, April 30, 2019, PAUL RYDEEN wrote:\nDoes anyone here have a Twitter account? That might be a better way to\nexpress our concern. It would have more visibility than a letter and we\nshould get a response (a response would not be guaranteed with a letter).\n\n\n\nOn Apr 29, 2019, at 6:11 PM, Dr. Bloodmoney \nwrote:\n\nI think that a polite letter to Tor wouldn't hurt anyone. As long as there\nis a chance of accidental editorial errors occurring we can at there very\nleast try, in our small way, to prevent it.\n\nOn Sun, Apr 28, 2019 at 2:02 PM Marc Aramini \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Yes every edition but the Ace uses the Scribner flawed printing.\n\nOn Sun, Apr 28, 2019 at 1:58 PM PAUL RYDEEN wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "The Gollancz SF Masterworks ebook has \"fifteen\" (spelled out).\n\n\nOn Apr 28, 2019, at 10:25 AM, Marc Aramini \nwrote:\n\nSee page 161- “it must have weighed a good fifteen pounds” - I have had\ntranslators contact me and had to explain it should be fifteen hundred\npounds.\n\nOn Sunday, April 28, 2019, Ab de Vos wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "I have the Charles Scribner's Sons edition of Fifth Head (New York,\n1972). Is that one corrupted as well?\nOp 28-4-2019 om 01:16 schreef Marc Aramini:\n\nCopy editors managed to mess up the horn reveal in reprints of Long Sun\nand I insist the ace version of Fifth Head is the least corrupt. Wolfe was\nvery mad about the switching of horn for I about two thirds of the way\nthrough exodus in reprints. He wanted the reveal at that dinner scene.\n\nOn Saturday, April 27, 2019, PAUL RYDEEN wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "I've never been sure how much leeway an editor really has. Would they\nreally cut whole scenes they didn't like? Do they redo things wholesale or\njust fix things and make recommendations? Since Wolfe picked this editor,\ncan we rely on his pick? Even if Wolfe were alive, how much of the\neditor's influence would make it to publication? And if the answer is the\neditor has a lot of sway, how many of his edits would the author notice on\nreview?\n\n\n\nOn Apr 26, 2019, at 9:55 PM, Bailey Swartz wrote:\n\nI like to have faith that Wolfe (who so carefully constructed each\nwork) anticipated the possibility of posthumourous publication and made\nappropriate plans for that eventuality.\n\nOn Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 7:51 PM Eric Bourland wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 6, "text": "I am wondering what result we would get if, individually and noisily,\nwe reached out to Tor editors and implored them to do basic proofreading on\nthe new novel, but make no changes in its substance, and publish it as Mr.\nWolfe wrote it. I am willing to act on this.\n\n\n\nEric\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n*******\n\nEric Bourland\n\neb at hwaet.com\n\nhttps://www.hwaet.com/\n\n\n\n\n\n*From:* Urth *On Behalf Of *Marc\nAramini\n*Sent:* Friday, April 26, 2019 8:25 PM" } ] }, { "message_id": "<001201d4ffc1$70b26ee0$52174ca0$@hwaet.com>", "from": { "name": "Eric Bourland", "address": "eb at hwaet.com" }, "date": "2019-05-01T01:58:56+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Have to make the tone just right. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \n\nI too was wondering about this. I guess we should not just stomp up to the gates of Tor Castle and demand oversight of the editing, although in fact this was my first inclination. I'll take a shot at it. This is just a draft, a suggestion, a place to begin. It's challenging to say, in a kind tone, we don't trust your editing esp with Hartwell gone; please don't *$#@! this up. Maybe this . . . .\n\n \n\n \n\nDear Editors,\n\n \n\nHello. We're a group of readers from the Urth Mailing List, a mailing list established in 1996 to discuss the writing of Gene Wolfe. We mourn the passing of Mr. Wolfe.\n\n \n\nWe are all looking forward eagerly to reading Mr. Wolfe's last novel, Interlibrary Loan. As a group, we also mourn the fact that Mr. Wolfe is not available to review the manuscript galleys.\n\n \n\nMr. Wolfe's writing is subtle and precise. In the past, his manuscripts have suffered under the pens of well-meaning copyeditors and proofreaders. Typically, when Wolfe receives edited galleys, he responds with STET to many well-intended but erroneous edits. Even small edits, like turning a letter to uppercase, or changing a pronoun, can ruin the intended effect of the story. Every scene, every sentence, every word is chosen and developed with utmost care. Many times, something that seems like an error, is not an error, but a carefully considered component of the story.\n\n \n\nAmong our group we have dedicated and prominent Wolfe scholars. We would be delighted to offer our assistance during the editorial phase of publishing Interlibrary Loan. We are available to consult with your editorial team as needed, to help publish Mr. Wolfe's last novel as close as possible to Mr. Wolfe's intentions. Our services are offered pro bono, simply because this book means a great deal to all of us.\n\n \n\nPlease let us know if we can assist. Thanking you for your time we remain\n\n \n\nThe Urth List\n\n \n\n \n\n \n\nFrom: Urth On Behalf Of Marc Aramini\nSent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 7:36 AM" } ] }, { "message_id": "<56EA8A90-B2C5-4FC4-B3B5-D11AFD486C19@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "António Pedro Marques", "address": "entonio at gmail.com" }, "date": "2019-05-01T13:59:20+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "<001201d4ffc1$70b26ee0$52174ca0$@hwaet.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I would love something along the lines of\n'Due to the complex and often tricky nature of Mr Wolfe's writing, and since he is not here anymore to review the final edit, we've decided to print the text as received, with no editing whatsoever, the way that would be done for a scholarly print of a historical book. Editing with Mr Wolfe's cooperation would have been the ideal, but under the circumstances we prefer to let the readers do it by themselves rather than introduce our own view.'\n\nNo dia 01/05/2019, ?s 02:58, Eric Bourland escreveu:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "Have to make the tone just right. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " \nI too was wondering about this. I guess we should not just stomp up to the gates of Tor Castle and demand oversight of the editing, although in fact this was my first inclination. I'll take a shot at it. This is just a draft, a suggestion, a place to begin. It's challenging to say, in a kind tone, we don't trust your editing esp with Hartwell gone; please don't *$#@! this up. Maybe this . . . .\n \n \nDear Editors,\n \nHello. We're a group of readers from the Urth Mailing List, a mailing list established in 1996 to discuss the writing of Gene Wolfe. We mourn the passing of Mr. Wolfe.\n \nWe are all looking forward eagerly to reading Mr. Wolfe's last novel, Interlibrary Loan. As a group, we also mourn the fact that Mr. Wolfe is not available to review the manuscript galleys.\n \nMr. Wolfe's writing is subtle and precise. In the past, his manuscripts have suffered under the pens of well-meaning copyeditors and proofreaders. Typically, when Wolfe receives edited galleys, he responds with STET to many well-intended but erroneous edits. Even small edits, like turning a letter to uppercase, or changing a pronoun, can ruin the intended effect of the story. Every scene, every sentence, every word is chosen and developed with utmost care. Many times, something that seems like an error, is not an error, but a carefully considered component of the story.\n \nAmong our group we have dedicated and prominent Wolfe scholars. We would be delighted to offer our assistance during the editorial phase of publishing Interlibrary Loan. We are available to consult with your editorial team as needed, to help publish Mr. Wolfe's last novel as close as possible to Mr. Wolfe's intentions. Our services are offered pro bono, simply because this book means a great deal to all of us.\n \nPlease let us know if we can assist. Thanking you for your time we remain\n \nThe Urth List\n \n \n \nFrom: Urth On Behalf Of Marc Aramini\nSent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 7:36 AM" } ] }, { "message_id": "<15557608-e4fa-4c60-29d8-d139286c4652@bindweed.com>", "from": { "name": "Gerry Quinn", "address": "gerry at bindweed.com" }, "date": "2019-05-01T14:45:57+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "<56EA8A90-B2C5-4FC4-B3B5-D11AFD486C19@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think they will edit it and proof-read it regardless. I would assume \nthat a posthumous editor will generally edit with a relatively light \nhand (since he cannot consult the author), attend to any notes (if Wolfe \never used them) and write an addendum outlining editorial decisions.\n\n- Gerry Quinn" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 01/05/2019 14:59, Ant?nio Pedro Marques wrote:\nI would love something along the lines of\n'Due to the complex and often tricky nature of Mr Wolfe's writing, and \nsince he is not here anymore to review the final edit, we've decided \nto print the text as received, with no editing whatsoever, the way \nthat would be done for a scholarly print of a historical book. Editing \nwith Mr Wolfe's cooperation would have been the ideal, but under the \ncircumstances we prefer to let the readers do it by themselves rather \nthan introduce our own view.'\n\nNo dia 01/05/2019, ?s 02:58, Eric Bourland > escreveu:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "Have to make the tone just right." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I too was wondering about this. I guess we should not just stomp up \nto the gates of Tor Castle and demand oversight of the editing, \nalthough in fact this was my first inclination. I'll take a shot at \nit. This is just a draft, a suggestion, a place to begin. It's \nchallenging to say, in a kind tone, we don't trust your editing esp \nwith Hartwell gone; please don't *$#@! this up. Maybe this . . . .\n\nDear Editors,\n\nHello. We're a group of readers from the Urth Mailing List, a mailing \nlist established in 1996 to discuss the writing of Gene Wolfe. We \nmourn the passing of Mr. Wolfe.\n\nWe are all looking forward eagerly to reading Mr. Wolfe's last novel, \nInterlibrary Loan. As a group, we also mourn the fact that Mr. Wolfe \nis not available to review the manuscript galleys.\n\nMr. Wolfe's writing is subtle and precise. In the past, his \nmanuscripts have suffered under the pens of well-meaning copyeditors \nand proofreaders. Typically, when Wolfe receives edited galleys, he \nresponds with STET to many well-intended but erroneous edits. Even \nsmall edits, like turning a letter to uppercase, or changing a \npronoun, can ruin the intended effect of the story. Every scene, \nevery sentence, every word is chosen and developed with utmost care. \nMany times, something that seems like an error, is not an error, but \na carefully considered component of the story.\n\nAmong our group we have dedicated and prominent Wolfe scholars. We \nwould be delighted to offer our assistance during the editorial phase \nof publishing Interlibrary Loan. We are available to consult with \nyour editorial team as needed, to help publish Mr. Wolfe's last novel \nas close as possible to Mr. Wolfe's intentions. Our services are \noffered pro bono, simply because this book means a great deal to all \nof us.\n\nPlease let us know if we can assist. Thanking you for your time we remain\n\nThe Urth List\n\n*From:* Urth > *On Behalf Of *Marc Aramini\n*Sent:* Tuesday, April 30, 2019 7:36 AM" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "DAVID", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2019-05-01T15:00:49+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "<15557608-e4fa-4c60-29d8-d139286c4652@bindweed.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes. This kind of thing is usually handled directly by an executor, such \nas a child of the author, if not an executive editor.\n\nIt's the proofreading that seems to create the trouble, since this is \nnot done by either role. It's the proofreader's job to flag things that \n*could* be wrong but it's the editor's job to follow the authorial \nresponses. In Wolfe's case that probably means ignoring most of the flags.\n\nI can't find my 5HC. Can anyone identify the object that is to be read \nas weighing either 15 or 1500 pounds?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 5/1/2019 10:45 AM, Gerry Quinn wrote:\n\nI think they will edit it and proof-read it regardless. — I would \nassume that a posthumous editor will generally edit with a relatively \nlight hand (since he cannot consult the author), attend to any notes \n(if Wolfe ever used them) and write an addendum outlining editorial \ndecisions.\n\n- Gerry Quinn\n\n\nOn 01/05/2019 14:59, Ant??nio Pedro Marques wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I would love something along the lines of\n'Due to the complex and often tricky nature of Mr Wolfe's writing, \nand since he is not here anymore to review the final edit, we've \ndecided to print the text as received, with no editing whatsoever, \nthe way that would be done for a scholarly print of a historical \nbook. Editing with Mr Wolfe's cooperation would have been the ideal, \nbut under the circumstances we prefer to let the readers do it by \nthemselves rather than introduce our own view.'\n\nNo dia 01/05/2019, ??s 02:58, Eric Bourland > escreveu:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 6, "text": "Have to make the tone just right." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "I too was wondering about this. I guess we should not just stomp up \nto the gates of Tor Castle and demand oversight of the editing, \nalthough in fact this was my first inclination. I'll take a shot at \nit. This is just a draft, a suggestion, a place to begin. It's \nchallenging to say, in a kind tone, we don't trust your editing esp \nwith Hartwell gone; please don't *$#@! this up. Maybe this . . . .\n\nDear Editors,\n\nHello. We're a group of readers from the Urth Mailing List, a \nmailing list established in 1996 to discuss the writing of Gene \nWolfe. We mourn the passing of Mr. Wolfe.\n\nWe are all looking forward eagerly to reading Mr. Wolfe's last \nnovel, Interlibrary Loan. As a group, we also mourn the fact that \nMr. Wolfe is not available to review the manuscript galleys.\n\nMr. Wolfe's writing is subtle and precise. In the past, his \nmanuscripts have suffered under the pens of well-meaning copyeditors \nand proofreaders. Typically, when Wolfe receives edited galleys, he \nresponds with STET to many well-intended but erroneous edits. Even \nsmall edits, like turning a letter to uppercase, or changing a \npronoun, can ruin the intended effect of the story. Every scene, \nevery sentence, every word is chosen and developed with utmost care. \nMany times, something that seems like an error, is not an error, but \na carefully considered component of the story.\n\nAmong our group we have dedicated and prominent Wolfe scholars. We \nwould be delighted to offer our assistance during the editorial \nphase of publishing Interlibrary Loan. We are available to consult \nwith your editorial team as needed, to help publish Mr. Wolfe's last \nnovel as close as possible to Mr. Wolfe's intentions. Our services \nare offered pro bono, simply because this book means a great deal to \nall of us.\n\nPlease let us know if we can assist. Thanking you for your time we \nremain\n\nThe Urth List\n\n*From:* Urth > *On Behalf Of *Marc Aramini\n*Sent:* Tuesday, April 30, 2019 7:36 AM" } ] }, { "message_id": "<7d30d8eb-c7a8-8492-9ef2-c8e1036a9b95@bindweed.com>", "from": { "name": "Gerry Quinn", "address": "gerry at bindweed.com" }, "date": "2019-05-02T23:36:13+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It's the 'carabou' the original anthropologist shoots, early in V.R.T. \nPage 169 of Gollancz Masterworks edition. It says the carcass weighed \nfifteen pounds, but it seems an obvious misprint for fifteen hundred.\n\n- Gerry Quinn" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 01/05/2019 16:00, DAVID wrote:\nYes. This kind of thing is usually handled directly by an executor, \nsuch as a child of the author, if not an executive editor.\n\nIt's the proofreading that seems to create the trouble, since this is \nnot done by either role. It's the proofreader's job to flag things \nthat *could* be wrong but it's the editor's job to follow the \nauthorial responses. In Wolfe's case that probably means ignoring most \nof the flags.\n\nI can't find my 5HC. Can anyone identify the object that is to be read \nas weighing either 15 or 1500 pounds?\n\nOn 5/1/2019 10:45 AM, Gerry Quinn wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I think they will edit it and proof-read it regardless. — I would \nassume that a posthumous editor will generally edit with a relatively \nlight hand (since he cannot consult the author), attend to any notes \n(if Wolfe ever used them) and write an addendum outlining editorial \ndecisions.\n\n- Gerry Quinn\n\n\nOn 01/05/2019 14:59, Ant??nio Pedro Marques wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "I would love something along the lines of\n'Due to the complex and often tricky nature of Mr Wolfe's writing, \nand since he is not here anymore to review the final edit, we've \ndecided to print the text as received, with no editing whatsoever, \nthe way that would be done for a scholarly print of a historical \nbook. Editing with Mr Wolfe's cooperation would have been the ideal, \nbut under the circumstances we prefer to let the readers do it by \nthemselves rather than introduce our own view.'\n\nNo dia 01/05/2019, ??s 02:58, Eric Bourland > escreveu:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 7, "text": "Have to make the tone just right." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "I too was wondering about this. I guess we should not just stomp up \nto the gates of Tor Castle and demand oversight of the editing, \nalthough in fact this was my first inclination. I'll take a shot at \nit. This is just a draft, a suggestion, a place to begin. It's \nchallenging to say, in a kind tone, we don't trust your editing esp \nwith Hartwell gone; please don't *$#@! this up. Maybe this . . . .\n\nDear Editors,\n\nHello. We're a group of readers from the Urth Mailing List, a \nmailing list established in 1996 to discuss the writing of Gene \nWolfe. We mourn the passing of Mr. Wolfe.\n\nWe are all looking forward eagerly to reading Mr. Wolfe's last \nnovel, Interlibrary Loan. As a group, we also mourn the fact that \nMr. Wolfe is not available to review the manuscript galleys.\n\nMr. Wolfe's writing is subtle and precise. In the past, his \nmanuscripts have suffered under the pens of well-meaning \ncopyeditors and proofreaders. Typically, when Wolfe receives edited \ngalleys, he responds with STET to many well-intended but erroneous \nedits. Even small edits, like turning a letter to uppercase, or \nchanging a pronoun, can ruin the intended effect of the story. \nEvery scene, every sentence, every word is chosen and developed \nwith utmost care. Many times, something that seems like an error, \nis not an error, but a carefully considered component of the story.\n\nAmong our group we have dedicated and prominent Wolfe scholars. We \nwould be delighted to offer our assistance during the editorial \nphase of publishing Interlibrary Loan. We are available to consult \nwith your editorial team as needed, to help publish Mr. Wolfe's \nlast novel as close as possible to Mr. Wolfe's intentions. Our \nservices are offered pro bono, simply because this book means a \ngreat deal to all of us.\n\nPlease let us know if we can assist. Thanking you for your time we \nremain\n\nThe Urth List\n\n*From:* Urth > *On Behalf Of *Marc Aramini\n*Sent:* Tuesday, April 30, 2019 7:36 AM" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "PAUL RYDEEN", "address": "rydeen at bellsouth.net" }, "date": "2019-09-06T11:14:20+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I just pre-ordered my copy from Amazon. It will be out next June. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Apr 26, 2019, at 7:59 AM, Matthew Keeley wrote:\n\nSome good news from Twitter. According to Patrick Nielsen Hayden, Wolfe finished Interlibrary Loan (sequel to A Borrowed Man) and Tor will be publishing it:\nhttps://twitter.com/pnh/status/1121644271545671680\n\n-Matt\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Ab de Vos", "address": "foxyab at casema.nl" }, "date": "2019-09-06T11:38:07+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Interlibrary Loan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "As did I, thanks! Another year.\n\nOp 6-9-2019 om 13:14 schreef PAUL RYDEEN:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I just pre-ordered my copy from Amazon. It will be out next June.\n\n\n\nOn Apr 26, 2019, at 7:59 AM, Matthew Keeley \n> wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Some good news from Twitter. According to Patrick Nielsen Hayden, \nWolfe finished /Interlibrary Loan /(sequel to /A Borrowed Man/) and \nTor will be publishing it:\nhttps://twitter.com/pnh/status/1121644271545671680\n\n-Matt\n_______________________________________________" } ] } ] }