{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/790", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 790, "subject": "Three Fingers", "messages": 4, "voices": 2, "first": "1998-06-15T11:41:09+00:00", "last": "1998-06-16T10:17:44+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "adam louis stephanides", "address": "astephan at students.uiuc.edu" }, "date": "1998-06-15T11:41:09+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Three Fingers", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sun, 14 Jun 1998 I wrote:\n3) \"Michael Mauss\" is really Mickey Mouse (and is also sane, as in 2)).\nSupporting this is that reserpine is now used as a veterinary\ntranquilizer. This is a cute theory, and it's undoubtedly true in a\nmetaphorical sense." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "My remark about Michael Mauss being Mickey Mouse in a metaphorical sense\nwas just an afterthought, but thinking it over I realize that it is true\nand important. Michael Mauss, not the \"suits\" we see in the final scene\n(whether real or not) is the true \"owner\" of Mickey Mouse, since he, not\nthey, is in touch with the mythical springs from which he derives, as the\nunmasking scene indicates.\n\nOf course, you may all think I've already spent too much time on another\nof Wolfe's \"oneiric jeux d'esprit,\" to use the phrase alga quoted from\nClute.\n\n--Adam" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "adam louis stephanides", "address": "astephan at students.uiuc.edu" }, "date": "1998-06-15T15:05:46+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Three Fingers", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, 15 Jun 1998 Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\nFirst and foremost, what on earth gives you the eyedea that they're\n_pretending_?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\"Captain Hook\" tells Michael he will be suffocated with the bonbons, but\nMichael has no trouble swallowing the bonbon, and the \"Wicked Queen's\"\nfinal remark shows that that's what's supposed to happen." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "And, similarly, the knowtion that they're \"dressed up\" \nas Disney characters?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Because they remove their masks, and are revealed to be \"paunchy\n[men/women] in a business suit.\" This is all plainly depicted in the\nstory; unless you've misremembered the ending, I'm missing your point." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "You have to know how fiercely these people protect their trademarks\nto feel this story. We're talking about a company that brought \nsuit against an urban daycare center because they'd hand-painted\nDisney characters on the walls." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "To be sure, knowing the determination with which Disney defends its\ncopyrights/trademarks adds resonance to the story. (I'm tempted to make a\njoke about how I would rather have Captain Hook et al. after me than\nDisney's lawyers, but I'll refrain.)\n\n--Adam" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy Oakes", "address": "ddanehyo at us.oracle.com" }, "date": "1998-06-15T14:56:28+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Three Fingers", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "First and foremost, what on earth gives you the eyedea that they're\n_pretending_?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "\"Captain Hook\" tells Michael he will be suffocated with the bonbons, but\nMichael has no trouble swallowing the bonbon, and the \"Wicked Queen's\"\nfinal remark shows that that's what's supposed to happen." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "H'mmmm. I'll have to look at this again. I'm probably just plain \nwrong here. But see below:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "And, similarly, the knowtion that they're \"dressed up\" \nas Disney characters?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Because they remove their masks, and are revealed to be \n\"paunchy [men/women] in a business suit.\" This is all plainly\ndepicted in the story; unless you've misremembered the ending,\nI'm missing your point." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "My point (all together now: \"And I do have a point\") was,\nsimply, that those suits _were_ the Queen, Captain, and Wolf,\nor, perhaps, their instantiations in this-world. \n\nMaking that assumption, then, the failure of the bonbon to \naccomplish its intended task makes sense; the Bad Guys hatch\nmarvellous plots, but they never seem to work out. (The\napplication of this to Wolfe's moral conceptions is left as an \nexercise for the alert reader.)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "(I'm tempted to make a joke about how I would rather have\nCaptain Hook et al. after me than Disney's lawyers, but I'll\nrefrain.)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, it's worth noting that none of Disney's villains ever seem \nto accomplish much of anything -- as opposed to the aforesaid \nattorneys...\n\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\n| | |\n| Dan'l Danehy-Oakes | First Amendment Pop Quiz: |\n| Staff Curriculum Developer | |\n| Oracle World-Wide Education | Is it all right to shout |\n| e-mail ddanehyo at us.oracle.com | \"movie\" in a crowded firehouse? |\n| phone 650.506.0793 | |\n| | |\n---------------------------------------------------------------------" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "adam louis stephanides", "address": "astephan at students.uiuc.edu" }, "date": "1998-06-16T10:17:44+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Three Fingers", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, 15 Jun 1998 Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\nMy point (all together now: \"And I do have a point\") was,\nsimply, that those suits _were_ the Queen, Captain, and Wolf,\nor, perhaps, their instantiations in this-world. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "So your argument is that the characters who are portrayed on the surface\nas paunchy men/women in business suits disguised as the Queen, Hook, and\nWolf are really the Queen, Hook and Wolf disguised, or manifesting\nthemselves as, paunchy men/women in business suits disguised as the Queen,\nHook, and Wolf?\n\nSo where does this leave your earlier contention that \"sometimes a pipe is\njust a pipe\"?\n\n--Adam" } ] } ] }