Subject: (urth) let it be, let it be

From: Reusch <newsun at freeway.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 07:50:36 +0000

[Posted from URTH, a mailing list about Gene Wolfe's New Sun and other works]

OK, TBoTNS was a *wonderful* book, but I can't help feeling that, with 
Mantis' excellent Lexicon, and all of the time and discussion which has 
revolved about it, it's being hashed to death. Why do we all continue to 
read Wolfe's books, the same book several times? Because each time we 
find another question, or the answer to a previous mystery. That's what 
makes it interesting. I, for one, would like to see a few mysteries 
remain in TBotNS. Let's open this up to include some of Wolfe's 
less-discussed, more obscure works. 

Like Castleview! The first time that I read this book, I remember 
thinking that reading each chapter was like watching an episode of Twin 
Peaks. You had no idea what just happened, or what was just about to 
happen. The second time through, I thought that I had a handle on it, up 
until the final scene in front of the castle. Can someone enlighten me, 
considering that I don't know much more of the Arthurian mythos than does 
Hollywood?

And how about Peace? I've read the book several times without penetrating 
past the notion that it's more or less a collection of short stories 
which are in some way tied to the memories/fantasies of the dead or dying 
central character, sort of like Bradbury's Illustrated Man. What am I 
missing?

Well, I can't help but throw one question/observation out about Urth of 
the New Sun. The writing style of this books starts out dramatically 
different than the four which precede it. Has anyone noticed this, or 
thought why? At first I thought that it was just less polished by Wolfe, 
but now I wonder. A different author? Severian 1, or Severian 2?  Any 
thoughts on this one?

Vance

---

From: Jim Jordan <jbjordan at gnt.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 14:26:09 +0000

>considering that I don't know much more of the Arthurian mythos than does 

	I think Castleview is "about" perception. The various houses, castles,
spaceships, etc. may all be the same thing (the Winnebago). The "wild ride"
is perceived differently by various people. Etc.
	I don't "get" the details at the end either, but remember that we are ALL
descended from Arthur -- something easy to prove, and a point Wolfe made to
me -- so that all the men are Arthurs, all the women Morganas, etc. Again:
perception and role-playing.

>central character, sort of like Bradbury's Illustrated Man. What am I 

	All I know are: (a) Weer is definitely dead; the falling tree disturbs his
grave; and (b) the book is a series of fictionalized autobiographical
reflections over Wolfe's own life. I did discuss Peace with Gene in my
interview on Duggan's website.
	Oh, and "The Changeling" (in Gene Wolfe's Book of Days) is set in the same
world as Peace (same town; same ghost story aspects) -- but I've never
figured it out. 

>but now I wonder. A different author? Severian 1, or Severian 2?  Any 

	I account for it as a Severian ten years older. That is plenty of time for
a man's style to change quite dramatically, especially after ten years of
being a sedate monarch. 

Nutria (Jim Jordan)

P.S. Should we carry our Whorl nicknames over onto this Urthine list?

---

From: Doug Eigsti <douge at nti.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 15:56:52 +0000

Vance,

	Although I, too, think Michael Driussi's LEXICON URTHUS is
excellent, I would not say that the depths of Urth have been plummed. I
will not soon tire of discussing the minutia of NEW SUN. I can, however,
echo your sentiment of widening the discussion to Wolfe's other fine
works.
	Let me start by commenting on one of the books you mentioned,
PEACE. This is Wolfe's first great book. The piece that declared to all
that he is now a master, his masterpeace. It still contains the greatest
number of nested stories of any of his books. Yes, It does read like a
series of connected stories, but they are not connected linearly, as is
Bradbury's THE ILLUSTRATED MAN, but vertically, stories within stories,
revolving around the life/death of Weer(Wolfe). Alden Weer manipulates his
after death "reality" to the extent that the reader is kept guessing as to
what is a real event and what is a death dream; or a dream within a
daydream in the real world. Even among Wolfe books it is difficult to
describe to someone the wonders of PEACE, but let's not let that stop us 
from trying.

=Talon=
douge at nti.com

Nutria,

	Since there is no naming convention for NEW SUN it would be 
easier to retain our Vironeese names. It is in the same universe as Urth, 
or maybe we can't even agree on that.

---

From: Jim Jordan <jbjordan at gnt.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 14:45:51 +0000

At 07:50 AM 4/16/97 -0000, you wrote:
>remain in TBotNS. 

	I submit that lots of mysteries remain, because Wolfe is not through with
Severian. We clearly have not arrived at the end of his life. Wolfe says
tht Severian is on a search for True Love, who is God Himself. (See my
interview on Duggan's website). The three symbols on Severian's grave are
rose, ship, and fountain. The rose is not only a labyrinth (see Borges and
Eco), but the symbol of the Lover (since men and women are labyrinths,
incomprehensible to one another). The first 4-volume set deals with the
claw of the rose (and the coin of Vodalus, which sets things in motion, but
it not on the tomb). Politics is the theme. The next volume with the ship
(Church), and possibly the fountain (life). Good works (charity) seems to
be the theme. But I predict a future volume or set of volumes to deal more
with the rose. BTW, I've never asked Wolfe if he plans more for Severian,
but I'm pretty sure he does. 

Nutria (Jim Jordan)