{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/830", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 830, "subject": "Severian and Thecla; V.R.T.", "messages": 1, "voices": 1, "first": "1998-06-18T17:01:25+00:00", "last": "1998-06-18T17:01:25+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "adam louis stephanides", "address": "astephan at students.uiuc.edu" }, "date": "1998-06-18T17:01:25+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Severian and Thecla; V.R.T.", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Dan'l Danehy Oakes\" \nSubject: Concerning Severian's Lacunae; also, \"Later, dudes\"\n\nSide note. Are we in fact certain that Sev and Thecla _were_ lovers?\nThe first time I read those passages I was quite convinced that they\nwere fantasies on Severian's part, or perhaps on the part of the \nSev+Thecla combined personality. While I am no longer convinced that\nthis is so, I am far from convinced that it is _not_ so." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Given Wolfe, I wouldn't swear positively that Sev and Thecla were lovers.\nSev does tell us more than once he may be insane, and I'm also beginning\nto entertain the possibility that parts of Sev's narrative are outright\nlies. But I see no reason why Sev and Thecla shouldn't be lovers: it's a\nnatural development given their situation, Sev make love to most of the\nother attractive women he encounters (at least the ones he mentions), and\nit's more likely that he would break his guild vow at risk of his life for\na lover than for someone who he'd had stimulating discussions of theology\nwith." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"William H. Ansley\" \nSubject: Re: (urth) Re: abo profile and a new Jeannine theory\n\nI am \"another poster\". I agree that VRT could have learned enough\nanthropology from books so he could impersonate Marsch under the conditions\nhe found himself. But I find it impossible to accept that he could just\nlook at #5 and guess he's a clone by means of knowledge picked up this way.\nIt seems to me we run into a chicken and egg problem here. How could he\nfigure out the Wolfes are clones without knowing about anthropological\nrelaxation (AR) very well. And why would he bone up on AR unless he knew\nthe Wolfes were clones. Of course he could have some other source of\nknowledge about the Wolfes that we don't know about as you almost seem to\nimply, but, from the text, this seems unlikely and having to rely on events\ntotally unsupported by the text is unsatisfying, at best." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nBut even if V.R.T. had somehow inherited Marsch's knowledge, how would\nthat tell him #5's a clone? He hasn't seen #5's father; all #5 tells him\nis \"'I'm supposed to look a great deal like my father,'\" something not\nuncommon among us non-clones, not \"'I'm supposed to look exactly like my\nfather did at my age'\"; and as far as I know clones per se have no\ndistinguishing marks. It's a strange passage (and has been so noted\nearlier on this list, IIRC). Maybe he saw a photograph of #5's father\nsomewhere. Another, perhaps less likely, possibility is that V.R.T. has\nheard rumors that there is a wealthy family of clones somewhere on St.\nCroix, and when he meets #5 and hear his remark he thinks \"Oh, maybe this\nis _that_ family.\" I agree that it's best to stick as close to the text\nas possible, but I think the above suggestions are preferable in this\nregard to positing an otherwise unmentioned ability in V.R.T." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I have noticed an *interesting* parallel between the novella 5HC and \"A\nStory\". (What's with the quotes here anyway? A story is a fiction; is \"A\nStory\" then supposed to not be one?)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "And since it's not really by Marsch, the true title should be not \"'A\nStory,' by John V. Marsch\" but \"A Story, by 'John V. Marsch'\"! " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "We have VRT as Marsch (an abo, probably?) going on quest for reasons that\nare not clear? (Wouldn't you think he'd want to avoid other anthropologists\nwho might see through his charade, even if he found the scholars from the\nlocal universities easy to fool?)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "My guess would be that his desire to figure out the origins of his\npeople is strong enough to induce him to risk being found out (although,\nas I said before, it's not all that much of a risk; or rather, there is a\nreal risk, but ironically it's from #5 and not from \"Dr. Veil\"). Very\ninteresting parallels, by the way.\n\n--Adam" } ] } ] }