{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/859", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 859, "subject": "fan fiction", "messages": 4, "voices": 4, "first": "1998-06-24T19:31:36+00:00", "last": "1998-06-25T10:38:12+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alice Turner", "address": "al at interport.net" }, "date": "1998-06-24T19:31:36+00:00", "subject": "(urth) fan fiction", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "With due respect, Sarge, sir, this becomes a ridiculous argument, similar to\nthat of science-meister scolex. The two of you are replacing Wolfe's text\nwith text of your own, yours involving an elaborate background for Marsch\nand his for Aunt Jeanine. There a word for that, and it isn't analysis, it's\nfan fiction (okay, two words)." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "We know that the text of the second two novellas in 5th Head is, to some\ndegree, unreliable--I just think it's more unreliable than most\nparticipants of this list do. I believe that \"A Story\" and \"V.R.T.\" are\ncalculated disinformation (while the first novella is merely a\nself-serving autobiography). So of course my defense against your\nattack, my dear green friend, is to assert that Marsch wrote about the\nboy's green eyes (and his mother's matching ones, and the stuff about\nabos having green eyes in \"A Story\") precisely because he himself has\nsuch green eyes. In fact, it must be that many Annese have green eyes\n(maybe they interbred with abos, and acquired this trait). Marsch hopes,\nif not to convince his captors, at least to distract them, to give them\nsomething else to think about than his mission. Yes, it's circular...but\nthat's my point.\n\nAnd what color are alga's eyes?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Mud-colored. And I must warn you, sir, that fraternization between ranks is\ninappropriate behavior." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "\"I have examined your papers, and letters follow your name. I shall call\nyou:\n\n'A Polish Count, a Knight Grand Cross,\nRx. and Q.E.D.;\nGrand Master of the Blood Red Dirk,\nand R.O.G.U.E.'\n\nYou seem to me very young.\"\n\nThis is a real head-banger. What _does_ it mean? First of all, it's in\nquotes. Does that mean it _is_ a quote from somewhere? If so, can anyone\nidentify it?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think the poem everyone \"almost\" remembers is the one by Dorothy Parker\nwhich ends \"And I am Marie of Rumania.\" Alas, I can't find it in my two\nlight verse collections which both lean heavily on dead Brits, but it's not\nbad. It puts in verse that fairly standard expression of scorn that goes\nmore or less\" \"Well, if he's a successful you-name-it, I'm the Queen of\nEngland!\" (Funnier from a male, and goes back at least to Gilbert &\nSullivan.) Maybe one of us has a more American light verse collection, or a\nParker collection, and can look it up. It's pretty well known. Wolfe is, I\nthink, just doing his own verse in the tradition.\n\n\nFrom Adam:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Is there any hint in \"V.R.T.\" of the folklore behind the\nShadow Children in \"A Story?\" I can't think of anyone in\nMarsch's interviews distinguishing more than two kinds of\nabos (Hill and Meadowmere) -- nor any mention of telepathic\nabilities, addiction to a particular plant, etc. Maybe the\nauthor made 'em up entirely, inspired by the constellation." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "But then where did the constellation's name come from?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Why was V.R.T. so sloppy in writing down memories of his own\nchildhood on St. Anne in what was supposed to be Marsch's\njournal?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On p. 230 (Ace edition) V.R.T. says he now thinks nobody may be reading\nhis prison writings after all. It's only after this that he writes about\nhis childhood on St. Anne." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes, I think this is right. The Shadow Children are to the Annese almost as\nthe Annese are to the colonists.\n\n-alga-" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Tony Ellis", "address": "tony.ellis at futurenet.co.uk" }, "date": "1998-06-25T09:10:18+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Re: fan fiction", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Alga wrote:\nWith due respect, Sarge, sir, this becomes a ridiculous argument, similar to\nthat of science-meister scolex. The two of you are replacing Wolfe's text\nwith text of your own, yours involving an elaborate background for Marsch\nand his for Aunt Jeanine." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Absolutely. Once you start writing your own story into the gaps in\nsomeone else's, it's really not that hard to find connections suggesting\nthat it was there all along. \"Rosencrantz and Guildstern Are Dead\" is a\nclassic example of what I mean." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I think the poem everyone \"almost\" remembers is the one by Dorothy Parker\nwhich ends \"And I am Marie of Rumania.\" Alas, I can't find it in my two\nlight verse collections which both lean heavily on dead Brits..." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This live Brit has found it in his book of quotations, but unless this\nis just an extract I'm not convinced it's what Wolfe had in mind:\n\n\t\t Comment\n\n Oh, life is a glorious cycle of song,\n A medley of extemporanea;\n And love is a thing that can never go wrong;\n And I am Marie of Rumania." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "1998-06-25T10:38:12+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Re: fan fiction", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thu, 25 Jun 1998, Tony Ellis wrote:\nAlga wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "With due respect, Sarge, sir, this becomes a ridiculous argument, similar to\nthat of science-meister scolex. The two of you are replacing Wolfe's text\nwith text of your own, yours involving an elaborate background for Marsch\nand his for Aunt Jeanine." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Absolutely. Once you start writing your own story into the gaps in\nsomeone else's, it's really not that hard to find connections suggesting\nthat it was there all along. \"Rosencrantz and Guildstern Are Dead\" is a\nclassic example of what I mean." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Or maybe URTH OF THE NEW SUN?\n\n-Rostrum" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Ranjit Bhatnagar", "address": "ranjit at moonmilk.com" }, "date": "1998-06-25T10:24:25+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Re: fan fiction", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Tony Ellis:\n\n\tOnce you start writing your own story into the gaps in\n\tsomeone else's, it's really not that hard to find\n\tconnections suggesting that it was there all\n\talong. \"Rosencrantz and Guildstern Are Dead\" is a classic\n\texample of what I mean.\n\nRostrum:\n\n\tOr maybe URTH OF THE NEW SUN?\n\nOr ENDYMION/RISE OF ENDYMION, which completely rewrote\nHYPERION/FALL OF HYPERION and also PISSED ME OFF.\n\n[Hyperion, Fall of Hyperion, Endymion, Rise of Endymion, by\nDan Simmons. Read the first two!]" } ] } ] }