{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/916",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 916,
    "subject": "black holes",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "1998-07-04T13:32:47+00:00",
    "last": "1998-08-04T11:02:56+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0015-0106@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Matthew Freestone",
        "address": "matthew at matthewf.demon.co.uk"
      },
      "date": "1998-07-04T13:32:47+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) black holes",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Hi, \nJust thought I'd add my bit to the black hole debate:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Prion wrote:\nas the hole absorbs the matter right next to it\nwhile in the sun, it grows larger and its gravitational force grows as\nwell, in a self-feeding cycle that only ends after all of the sun's\nmatter has been drawn into it, which occurs more and more quickly as\nit absorbs the matter right next to it at almost the speed of light\nall the time, and it's surface area increases the more it absorbs. "
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "This sounds right - it's a positive feedback cycle, but it doesn't prove\nyour claim that the process only takes a few seconds: it depends how big\nthe black hole was to start with, and on the rate of growth. Not being\nan astrophysicist, I'm not sure how to calculate these things, but the\npoint is that this is an argument where you need the numbers, not the\nhandwaving version.\n\nCheers,\n--                              II         |\\      _,,,---,,_\nMatt Freestone                  II    zzz. /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_.\nmatthew at matthewf.demon.co.uk    II        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\\ (  `'-'\nwww.matthewf.demon.co.uk/       II       '---''(_/--'  `-'\\_)"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0017-0083@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Jon Camfield",
        "address": "griffjon at mail.utexas.edu"
      },
      "date": "1998-08-04T11:02:56+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Black Holes",
      "in_reply_to": "<urth-v0015-0106@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "(Intro:  'lo, I'm a newbie to the Urth list, but have been catching up with\nthe archives (slowly) and have been following the recent threads.  My 'nick'\nis GriffJon, though my name is Jon Camfield.  I answer to either)\n\nSean Walen's argument for the sun having a wormhole rather than a black hole\nis interesting, and I seem to remember one character describing the\nphenomenon as \"a worm eating the middle out of the sun\" or somesuch, but...\nI think he overlooked one part about the black hole.  There is actually some\nmath to be done which I'm not going to do.  Typhon reported that the Earth's\ntemperature worldwide dropped .002 the first year that there was the black\nhole in the sun.  I think that this would indicate that the sun lost a lot\nof it's mass to the black hole, and so we could find the general size of the\nhole, ideally.\n     But a black hole itself in the middle of the sun, before taking into\naccount the mass it absorbs from the sun, will increase the gravity of their\ncombined bodies, possibly enough to draw the planets in closer over time.\n     Of course, the problem with this is that Severian understands white-\nand black- holes as a kind of gateway into lower and higher universes,\nrather than the way we currently see them...  but supposedly they still have\na rather nasty gravity well, they just wouldn't increase due to what they\nintake.  This is actually good.  Typhon also said that this drop in\ntemperatures was unexpectedly fast, and then it stablized.  So, initially,\nthe black hole+mass of original sun pulled the earth closer but at the same\ntime cooled the sun down fast (biiiig black hole??) but over time the black\nhole had 'eaten it's weight' in sun, and the changes became less noticeable.\n------------------------------------------------------------------\nJon Camfield      \"GriffJon\"  |Webmaster, Plan II Honors Program:\ngriffjon at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu   | www.dla.utexas.edu/~plan2\nGriffJon at mail.utexas.edu      |Webmaster, Broccoli Project:\n                              | www.utexas.edu/students/brocproj\nHomepage, Gallery, Resume:    |Channel Manager, Undernet #Poetry\n ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~griffjon | www.tripod.com/~ircpoetry\n------------------------------------------------------------------\n\"The most incomprehensible fact about nature is that it is comprehensible\"\n-- Albert Einstein"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}