{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/972",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 972,
    "subject": "Ships and Jonas",
    "messages": 1,
    "voices": 1,
    "first": "1998-07-13T16:32:00+00:00",
    "last": "1998-07-13T16:32:00+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0016-0066@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "m.driussi",
        "address": "m.driussi at genie.com"
      },
      "date": "1998-07-13T16:32:00+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Ships and Jonas",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Dan,\n\nRe: signing up on ships/the Ship.  Pressgangs are possible; and don't\nforget that slaves are one of the chief exports of Urth, so there's\nanother case not too different from a pressgang (although they don't\nget to be sailors).  My relatively unexamined sense is that generally\nsailors just sign on in the same way as for a sea-going vessel.  Then\nthey get the whole \"time/space\" lecture, which goes in one primitive\near and out the other (\"yeah, yeah, you can't go home again, sure\"),\nso that they end up being just about as confused on their first trip\nas Severian was on his trip.\n\nIn the text we hear (from a middle-aged Gunnie) that Burgundofara\nsigned on as a young woman, she met a sailor named Severian who\ntaught her everything.  This Gunnie convinces Burgundofara to get off\nthe Ship, presumably to avoid making the life-choices that Gunnie made .\n. . which (might/probably will) result in Gunnie either imploding like\nMaster Ash (as her past is altered) or optimizing ala Sev1/Sev2.\n\nSeverian and Burgundofara get off at Urth, and the rest is history!\n\nBut Severian seems to hypothesize that the young Burgundofara who\nbetrayed him and settled down to a life on Urth, later in life became\ndissatisfied (again) and signed up on the Ship (again).  Which would\nmean that \"old Gunnie\" didn't go poof or optimize at all--but\n\"merely\" acted as her own signpost--and the \"mistakes\" in her life\nwere maybe not so much on the Ship but acting as the \"necessary evil\"\nrole of Judas to the Conciliator.\n\nRe: Jonas as Pinocchio.  Good point--especially since the goal of\nbecoming flesh is there.  I think there's also some \"Little Tin\nSoldier\" in there as well, since in that fairy tale the tin soldier\nfalls in love with a paper ballerina and they are only united in\ndeath.\n\nAll of which is =much= easier to see than anything related to the\nname \"Jonas\"!  The easiest solution I can come up with is: \"Jonas\" is\nthe new name given to the broken android after the crash, bestowed by\nthe crewmembers who held him personally responsible for the crash.\nTalk about an albatross (around the neck of our ancient wandering\nJewish mariner)!\n\n=mantis="
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}