{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/990", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 990, "subject": "Digest Urth, or brains thereof", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "1998-07-14T15:57:05+00:00", "last": "1998-07-15T12:04:38+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Charles Dye", "address": "raster at highfiber.com" }, "date": "1998-07-14T15:57:05+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Digest Urth, or brains thereof", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "adam louis stephanides explicates:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "raster argued that, as long as Severian was still alive or if he'd been\nlost at sea, nobody could be a legitimate Autarch. It's not clear to me\nwhether this is because a legitimate Autarch must eat his predecessor's\nbrains ..." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Such an ugly phrase, that. Can't we come up with some polite euphemism?\n\"Breakfast for your head\" ... no, wait, I like \"eating brains\" better.\nNever mind. Yes, that was my point: you need a body for succession to\nproceed." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "... or simply that a legitimate Autarch must be chosen by his\npredecessor. If the former, it would seem that the Autarchy runs a\ngrave risk of being permanently lost, either through the Autarch being\ncaptured by the enemy, or killed in battle or by assassination with\nthe designated successor unable to arrive in time. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "But note that ol' Appian has been captured by the enemy! It's made\npretty clear that Severian is the \"designated successor,\" but I'm not\ncertain that there always is one. Alls ya needs is a corpse, a knife,\nand the drug -- all provided by Appian -- and instructions, which\npresumably Inire would have provided had A been unable to. The next-\nin-line may be a randomly chosen bystander, if you don't have a\ndesignated successor handy.\n\n(You'll notice that after Appian's injury and capture, Inire can be\nseen skulking about. Severian thinks he's trying to carry out a\nrescue. Fat chance -- Appian's as good as dead. I believe Inire is\nthere to ensure the continued dynasty.)\n\nThat said, yes, the regime does have some problems. It also has a\nfew advantages. Fr'instance, it's easy to decide whether or not an\nindividual claiming the Autarchy is the real McCoy. He knows the\nwords!\n\nm.driussi at genie.com writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Actually I believe raster's primary concern re: authentic autarchs is\nthe same as my own--the brain eating bit. It seems to define\n\"autarch\" as distinct from \"monarch,\" \"suzerain,\" \"dictator of the\nproletariate,\" etc.; it also seems to figure into the equation of\n\"how one person can represent many\" in a concrete way rather than\njust the lip-service paid by representative democracy. The autarch\n=is= legion--it isn't just a metaphor." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "And also provides a slick justification for the royal plural." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "So yes, yes, very rickety. I imagine Inire stepping out of the\nshadows to help along a situation that requires a deus ex\nmachina to deliver a brain-eater--that is, Inire won't allow the\nsystem to fail; the autarch breaks his neck, a scullary maid becomes\nAutarch. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Or a honey steward, of course.\n\nmary whalen -- well, okay, prion -- notes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Has anyone noticed that the Autarch Appian's name is a homophone for\napian (bee-like)? Any connection with the Honey Steward?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Bingo! Name pun -- Wolfe loves 'em. Also, of course, another Claudian\nreference.\n\nraster at highfiber.com" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "1998-07-15T11:17:07+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Digest Urth, or brains thereof", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Charles Dye wrote:\nThat said, yes, the regime does have some problems. It also has a\nfew advantages. Fr'instance, it's easy to decide whether or not an\nindividual claiming the Autarchy is the real McCoy. He knows the\nwords!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I have to admit some confusion on that point. Wouldn't anyone judging the\nAutarch also have to know the words in order to recognize them? Shouldn't\nany such person be able to speak \"the words\" and pose as the Autarch?\n\nAre they perhaps some sort of hypnotic triggers that people recognize but\nare unable to remember?\n\n-Rostrum" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Mark Millman", "address": "mark_millman at hmco.com" }, "date": "1998-07-15T12:04:38+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Digest Urth, or brains thereof", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wednesday 15 July 1998, Rostrum wrote:\nOn Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Charles Dye wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "That said, yes, the regime does have\nsome problems. It also has a few ad-\nvantages. Fr'instance, it's easy to de-\ncide whether or not an individual claim-\ning the Autarchy is the real McCoy. He\nknows the words!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I have to admit some confusion on that point.\nWouldn't anyone judging the Autarch also\nhave to know the words in order to recognize\nthem? Shouldn't any such person be able to\nspeak \"the words\" and pose as the Autarch?\n\nAre they perhaps some sort of hypnotic\ntriggers that people recognize but are unable\nto remember?\n\n-Rostrum" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This seems entirely possible, though if I recall (and you've\nall just had a taste of how bad my memory can be) we're\nreally given no evidence of how the castellan of the Citadel\nreacts to Severian's word of command--whether, that is, he\njumps to an implanted compulsion or simply recognizes\nthe password, as it were (ignoring the possibility you raise,\nRostrum, that he recognizes a word that deliberately has\nbeen made unavailable to his conscious mind, which I'd\ncall a special case of the latter situation).\n\nHowever, I don't think this is an insuperable obstacle. For\none thing, many of the words command mechanical contri-\nvances, so all a putative Autarch would have to do, for ex-\nample, would be to open the door behind the throne and\nmaybe operate a couple of other devices to prove his or\nher legitimacy. Or the words of command for three or four\nsubordinates could be employed; even if the officers are\nconsciously aware of their passwords, they may only be\ninherited, so to speak, in the line of succession for each\noffice. The person who knows several must therefore be\nthe Autarch.\n\nOr (and to me this seems most likely) Inire, who seems to\nbe as ubiquitous as flan in Spanish restaurants, could\nassert the legitimacy of each successor based either on\nhis having witnessed the essential act of succession or on\na test of the individual in question. It seems as though he\nmust know a great many, if not all, of the words of power;\nand one would think him, in this context at least, to be for all\npractical purposes incorruptible.\n\nMark Millman" } ] } ] }