{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/usenet/24",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "usenet",
  "thread": {
    "id": 24,
    "subject": "Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun",
    "messages": 3,
    "voices": 3,
    "first": "1984-11-14T19:09:01+00:00",
    "last": "1984-11-24T17:12:00+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<380@petsd.UUCP>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Chris Henrich",
        "address": "cjh at petsd.uucp"
      },
      "date": "1984-11-14T19:09:01+00:00",
      "subject": "Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "[]\n     Ian Kaplan writes:\n\n                 In these books Wolfe has woven an incredibly complex\nplot whose central point I hoped would be revealed in the last book.  \nFor me at least, this did not happen and the books remain enigmatic.  \nIn the last few pages of the last New Sun book, \"The Citadel of the \nAutarch\", the new Autarch, whose previous carear we have followed,\nstates that he is leaving the Book of the New Sun behind on earth and\ngoing to meet the extra-terestrials.  While on this flight he will\nrewrite the book a second time.  Since he has perfect memory, he can\nreproduce the book exactly.  He says that if you don't understand the\nbook, read it a second time, just as he is writing it a second time. \n\n     I found that repeated readings of these books were\nneeded, not only to refresh my memory of them (they came out\nat intervals of 8 to 12 months) but also to understand them at\nall. Wolfe apparently wants the reader to work hard (as\nwitness his use of obscure words, not explained), and in many\nplaces a \"throw-away line\" clarifies something that appeared\nhundreds of pages back, or even in a previous volume.\n\n     What does it all mean?\n     I don't know that it *has* to mean anything. If a book\nengages the reader's attention and gives enjoyment, then it is\nsatisfactory. If it survives several attentive rereadings, and still\ngives enjoyment, it is excellent. I think _The_New_Sun_\nqualifies.\n     One reservation: Severian's promotion to the position of\nAutarch seems unmotivated; i.e. it does not make sense in the\ncontext of the book. (Even the characters in the book seem\nto feel their world is pretty weird.) This is a defect, and is\nnot repaired by having the previous Autarch suggest that\nindeed it was unmotivated.  But maybe, the next time around, \nI'll see why Severian was the obvious choice, and this was the\nobvious thing to happen to him.\n\nRegards,\nChris"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<1252@utah-gr.UUCP>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Donn Seeley",
        "address": "donn at utah-gr.uucp"
      },
      "date": "1984-11-23T13:27:52+00:00",
      "subject": "Re: Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun",
      "in_reply_to": "<380@petsd.UUCP>",
      "reply_link": "header",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I've been out of town and just recently managed to get caught up with\neverything -- otherwise I would have attended to this earlier.\n(Perhaps not coincidentally, my trip was to recover my library from\nstorage, including THE BOOK OF THE NEW SUN!) Beware: some spoilers may\nlurk in the following discussion...\n\nIn the last chapter of THE CITADEL OF THE AUTARCH, Severian says:\n\n\tHave I told you all I promised?  I am aware that at various\n\tplaces in my narrative I have pledged that this or that should\n\tbe made clear in the knitting up of the story.  I remember them\n\tall, I am sure, but then I remember so much else.  Before you\n\tassume that I have cheated you, read again, as I will write\n\tagain.\n\nWolfe is something of a fan of detective fiction (as you might guess\nfrom his story 'The Rubber Bend'), and the last several chapters\nconsist of the summation which the great detective always makes at the\nend of the story.  Of course Wolfe doesn't want to spoil the fun of\nfinding the answers, so he answers things obliquely, and you have to\nread carefully to guess at what particular puzzle is being explained.\n\nI don't like to spoil the fun either, but I will mention some points to\ndirect your re-reading that stem from things I've noticed or read\nelsewhere.\n\n +\tEasy one:  Can you draw Severian's family tree?  There are a\n\tnumber of red herrings which appear in the course of the books\n\tbut the answer to this is fairly clear by the end of CITADEL.\n\n +\tWhat is the connection between the gold coin which Vodalus gave\n\tto Severian, and Dr. Talos?  What relates it to the Sun and to\n\tthe old mausoleum in the necropolis of the Citadel?  Bonus\n\tquestion, unrelated: What was the original function of the\n\tCitadel?\n\n +\tWhat generates the apparitions of Master Malrubius and the dog,\n\tTriskele?  This should be easy to answer, perhaps more so\n\tbecause of the recent Asimov novel.  (There does seem to be a\n\tcurious parallel between Asimov's universe and Wolfe's...)\n\n +\tWhat really happened in the climactic event of THE CLAW OF THE\n\tCONCILIATOR?  I don't believe this is stated directly but it is\n\trelatively straightforward to guess.\n\n +\tWhat is the basis of the Urthian religion?  Analogies with at\n\tleast two of our religions come to mind.\n\n +\tWho is the Conciliator?  What is Severian's connection to him,\n\tand to the New Sun?  Who is responsible for this connection?\n\n +\tFinally, why is a rose's thorn as efficacious as the Claw?  If\n\tyou understand this, you understand the core of the books.\n\nYou have 30 minutes.  Put your pencil down to indicate when you have\nfinished.  Start now.\n\nThere are lots of fun things to look for besides plot events, of\ncourse.  One is tracing the origins of the stories and legends which\nthe people of Urth tell.  Another is catching references to Jorge Luis\nBorges' works; two places to look are the story of Domnina's encounter\nwith Father Inire, and 'The Tale of the Student and His Son'.  (There\nare others, too...) Another is looking for little clevernesses -- for\nexample, what book in the set of four which Severian fetches for Thecla\ndoes he NOT describe?  (I wouldn't have noticed this if Wolfe hadn't\nmentioned it in an article.)  If you fancy this sort of thing, it helps\nto have a copy of THE CASTLE OF THE OTTER and to read 'The Books in THE\nBOOK OF THE NEW SUN' in PLAN[E]T ENGINEERING (which also has a map of\nthe continent on which Nessus is located).\n\nWolfe started working on THE BOOK OF THE NEW SUN in 1975 and the last\nvolume wasn't published until 1983.  Think of all the effort that went\ninto it -- it shouldn't be surprising that Wolfe wants the reader to do\nsome work too.\n\nIf all else fails, you can see if the answers are in THE URTH OF THE\nNEW SUN when it comes out,"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<17400013@smu.UUCP>",
      "from": {
        "name": "mcdonald",
        "address": "mcdonald at smu.uucp"
      },
      "date": "1984-11-24T17:12:00+00:00",
      "subject": "Re: Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun",
      "in_reply_to": "<380@petsd.UUCP>",
      "reply_link": "header",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "that not enough was made clear.  According to Wolfe, the manuscript is\nabout 200 pages through the second draft and has been waiting for several\nmonths for him to finish other obligations.\n\n                                          Mc"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}