{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/usenet/67", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "usenet", "thread": { "id": 67, "subject": "Severian - unreliable narrator?", "messages": 6, "voices": 6, "first": "2006-08-04T14:48:58+00:00", "last": "2006-08-05T09:32:08+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<1154702938.622857.74150@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>", "from": { "name": "adrianmarley", "address": "adrianmarley at yahoo.co.uk" }, "date": "2006-08-04T14:48:58+00:00", "subject": "Severian - unreliable narrator?", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm currently working my way through Gene Wolfe's _Book of the New\nSun_. I have read quite a bit about this work and know that it is very\nhighly regarded among sf critics and fans. A lot of what I've read,\nthough, refers to Severian as being an unreliable narrator.\n\nMy question is this: In what way is Severian unreliable? Can anybody\npoint out specific instances of where is being unreliable or where he\nis telling lies?\n\nCheers,\nAdrian." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "vivian", "address": "darkbloom at ru.com" }, "date": "2006-08-04T17:02:02+00:00", "subject": "Re: Severian - unreliable narrator?", "in_reply_to": "<1154702938.622857.74150@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 4 Aug 2006 07:48:58 -0700, adrianmarley at yahoo.co.uk wrote:\nI'm currently working my way through Gene Wolfe's _Book of the New\nSun_. I have read quite a bit about this work and know that it is very\nhighly regarded among sf critics and fans. A lot of what I've read,\nthough, refers to Severian as being an unreliable narrator.\n\nMy question is this: In what way is Severian unreliable? Can anybody\npoint out specific instances of where is being unreliable or where he\nis telling lies?\n\nCheers,\nAdrian." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Adrian:\n\nThe Wolfe on-line discussion list is filled with information like you\nrequest, but is somewhat difficult to search given its massive amount\nof posts. Here, at any rate, are two that may help:\n\nhttp://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0028/0427.shtml\n\nhttp://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0307/3619.txt.shtml\n\nviv" } ] }, { "message_id": "<44D3C1AE.BD234EAA@optonline.com>", "from": { "name": "Andrew Wheeler", "address": "acwheele at optonline.com" }, "date": "2006-08-04T21:52:45+00:00", "subject": "Re: Severian - unreliable narrator?", "in_reply_to": "<1154702938.622857.74150@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "adrianmarley at yahoo.co.uk wrote:\n\nI'm currently working my way through Gene Wolfe's _Book of the New\nSun_. I have read quite a bit about this work and know that it is very\nhighly regarded among sf critics and fans. A lot of what I've read,\nthough, refers to Severian as being an unreliable narrator.\n\nMy question is this: In what way is Severian unreliable? Can anybody\npoint out specific instances of where is being unreliable or where he\nis telling lies?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't have chapter and verse in front of me, but one big red flag is\nthat Severian both says that he has perfect recall and then (as the\nbooks go on) says that he has \"forgotten\" some detail or other." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Andrew Wheeler: Professional Editor, Amateur Wise-Acre\n-- \nIf you enjoyed this post, try my blog at\nhttp://antickmusings.blogspot.com\nIf you hated this post, you probably have bad taste anyway." } ] }, { "message_id": "<1154732382.059554.264030@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>", "from": { "name": "seanc", "address": "discjonz at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2006-08-04T22:59:42+00:00", "subject": "Re: Severian - unreliable narrator?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 4 Aug 2006 07:48:58 -0700, adrianmarley at yahoo.co.uk wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "My question is this: In what way is Severian unreliable? Can anybody\npoint out specific instances of where is being unreliable or where he\nis telling lies?\n\nCheers,\nAdrian." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "vivian wrote:\nAdrian:\n\nThe Wolfe on-line discussion list is filled with information like you\nrequest, but is somewhat difficult to search given its massive amount\nof posts. Here, at any rate, are two that may help:\n\nhttp://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0028/0427.shtml\n\nhttp://www.urth.net/urth/archives/v0307/3619.txt.shtml" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thanks to the original poster for asking a question I have also\nwondered about, and to viv for providing explicating links.\n\nI'm not entirely convinced that this evidence makes Severian an\nunreliable narrator; at the very least, the subtle discrepensies\ndescribed in the linked material don't necessarily mean that he got the\nmore significant portions of his story wrong.\n\nEven supposing that the evidence is sound, there's still the matter of\nmotive. My underlying question is, what purpose would it serve for\nSeverian to prevaricate?\n\nBest,\n\nSean" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Rich Horton", "address": "rrhorton at prodigy.net" }, "date": "2006-08-04T23:28:48+00:00", "subject": "Re: Severian - unreliable narrator?", "in_reply_to": "<44D3C1AE.BD234EAA@optonline.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 17:52:45 -0400, Andrew Wheeler\n wrote:\nadrianmarley at yahoo.co.uk wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I'm currently working my way through Gene Wolfe's _Book of the New\nSun_. I have read quite a bit about this work and know that it is very\nhighly regarded among sf critics and fans. A lot of what I've read,\nthough, refers to Severian as being an unreliable narrator.\n\nMy question is this: In what way is Severian unreliable? Can anybody\npoint out specific instances of where is being unreliable or where he\nis telling lies?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I don't have chapter and verse in front of me, but one big red flag is\nthat Severian both says that he has perfect recall and then (as the\nbooks go on) says that he has \"forgotten\" some detail or other." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That's Roy Lackey's reading -- wherever Severian remarks on his\nperfect memory, he is shown to stumble. However, that does not make\nhim a classical \"unreliable\" narrator -- that is to say, one who lies\nfor self-serving (or narrative-serving) reasons -- but simply an\nimperfect narrator." } ] }, { "message_id": "<1154770328.359501.133730@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>", "from": { "name": "Michael Grosberg", "address": "grosberg.michael at gmail.com" }, "date": "2006-08-05T09:32:08+00:00", "subject": "Re: Severian - unreliable narrator?", "in_reply_to": "<1154702938.622857.74150@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "adrianmarley at yahoo.co.uk wrote:\nI'm currently working my way through Gene Wolfe's _Book of the New\nSun_. I have read quite a bit about this work and know that it is very\nhighly regarded among sf critics and fans. A lot of what I've read,\nthough, refers to Severian as being an unreliable narrator.\n\nMy question is this: In what way is Severian unreliable? Can anybody\npoint out specific instances of where is being unreliable or where he\nis telling lies?\n\nCheers,\nAdrian." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, he doesn't lie outright, but from time to time he may hold\ninformation from the reader to maintain suspense.\n\nOne specific instance is the one where he is lured into a cave by, as\nit turns out, Agia (I don't remember the exact circumstences - it's\nbeen a long time since I read it). As he's going in he already suspects\nshe is inside, but he doesn't tell the reader.\nHe also fails to inform the readers about his motives for not telling\ndorcas he knows about her past." } ] } ] }