{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/usenet/73", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "usenet", "thread": { "id": 73, "subject": "Gene Wolfe (1931 - 2019)", "messages": 12, "voices": 10, "first": "2019-04-15T17:55:51+00:00", "last": "2019-04-17T18:23:43+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Nicoll", "address": "jdnicoll at panix.com" }, "date": "2019-04-15T17:55:51+00:00", "subject": "Gene Wolfe (1931 - 2019)", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Tor reports the death of Gene Wolfe:\n\nhttps://www.tor.com/2019/04/15/gene-wolfe-in-memoriam-1931-2019/" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/\nMy tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/\nMy Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/\nMy patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4515527a-da8b-45d2-a5f2-a34860f9103a@googlegroups.com>", "from": { "name": "Ahasuerus", "address": "ahasuerus at email.com" }, "date": "2019-04-15T18:31:56+00:00", "subject": "Re: Gene Wolfe (1931 - 2019)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 1:55:53 PM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:\nTor reports the death of Gene Wolfe:\n\nhttps://www.tor.com/2019/04/15/gene-wolfe-in-memoriam-1931-2019/" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "His stories weren't always my cup of tea, but many were very well\ncrafted. Good job.\n\nHe also wrote a number of interesting and occasionally funny essays.\nFor example, here is a snippet from \"Lone Wolfe: A Self-Conducted\nInterview with Gene Wolfe\" (1983):" } ] }, { "message_id": "<43ad0685-05c7-41ab-902a-4928bc87cc9f@googlegroups.com>", "from": { "name": "lenona321", "address": "lenona321 at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2019-04-16T18:28:02+00:00", "subject": "Re: Gene Wolfe (1931 - 2019)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=FB62XLu-KMfH_QaMtqnIBw&q=gene+wolfe+87&btnK=Google+Search&oq=gene+wolfe+87&gs_l=psy-ab.3...629.3062..3248...0.0..0.133.1078.13j1....2..0....1..gws-wiz.....0..0j0i10j33i160.52pqXcxzfi8\n (more obits, including one from The Guardian)\n\n\nhttps://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.arts.books.childrens/gene$20wolfe%7Csort:date/rec.arts.books.childrens/RYbVyR0tBCs/82mktSC3co0J\n (birthday post from 2011, with links to interviews, book covers, and video)" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Ahasuerus", "address": "ahasuerus at email.com" }, "date": "2019-04-16T19:47:26+00:00", "subject": "Re: Gene Wolfe (1931 - 2019)", "in_reply_to": "<43ad0685-05c7-41ab-902a-4928bc87cc9f@googlegroups.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 2:28:05 PM UTC-4, leno... at yahoo.com wrote:\n[snip]" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From Wikipedia:\n\nWhen asked the \"Most overrated\" and \"Most underrated\" authors, Thomas\nDisch identified Isaac Asimov and Gene Wolfe, respectively [snip]" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Disch calling Asimov overrated is a bit like a fillet knife calling an\naxe overrated. Where is the finesse?" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Gene Wirchenko", "address": "genew at telus.net" }, "date": "2019-04-17T02:31:36+00:00", "subject": "Re: Gene Wolfe (1931 - 2019)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 12:47:26 -0700 (PDT), Ahasuerus" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "[snip]" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "From Wikipedia:\n\nWhen asked the \"Most overrated\" and \"Most underrated\" authors, Thomas\nDisch identified Isaac Asimov and Gene Wolfe, respectively [snip]" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Disch calling Asimov overrated is a bit like a fillet knife calling an\naxe overrated. Where is the finesse?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " Since starting to read Asimov, I have always liked Asimov's work.\nI really liked his very readable science writing.\n\n I never cared much for Wolfe's work. What I tried was opaque to\nme, and thereafter, I avoided it. Since we are on a RIP thread, could\nsomeone please point me and others to Wolfe works that we might like\nalong with some whys?\n\nSincerely,\n\nGene Wirchenko" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Titus G", "address": "noone at nowhere.com" }, "date": "2019-04-17T04:14:23+00:00", "subject": "Re: Gene Wolfe (1931 - 2019)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 17/04/19 2:31 PM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:\nOn Tue, 16 Apr 2019 12:47:26 -0700 (PDT), Ahasuerus\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 2:28:05 PM UTC-4, leno... at yahoo.com wrote:\n[snip]" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": " From Wikipedia:\n\nWhen asked the \"Most overrated\" and \"Most underrated\" authors, Thomas\nDisch identified Isaac Asimov and Gene Wolfe, respectively [snip]" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Disch calling Asimov overrated is a bit like a fillet knife calling an\naxe overrated. Where is the finesse?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " Since starting to read Asimov, I have always liked Asimov's work.\nI really liked his very readable science writing." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I haven't read his fiction for decades but certainly enjoyed it and \nagree that the introductory science writing of his was readable and \nunderstandable for me whose Physics knowledge was mediocre high school \nlevel." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " I never cared much for Wolfe's work. What I tried was opaque to\nme, and thereafter, I avoided it. Since we are on a RIP thread, could\nsomeone please point me and others to Wolfe works that we might like\nalong with some whys?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "My experience was similar. I began _The Book of the New Sun_ once but \ndid not finish the second and remember nothing about it so will echo \nyour request with the added query; which authors is he similar to?" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Ted Nolan ", "address": "ted at loft.tnolan.com" }, "date": "2019-04-17T04:32:01+00:00", "subject": "Re: Gene Wolfe (1931 - 2019)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "In article , Titus G wrote:\nOn 17/04/19 2:31 PM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 12:47:26 -0700 (PDT), Ahasuerus\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 2:28:05 PM UTC-4, leno... at yahoo.com wrote:\n[snip]" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": " From Wikipedia:\n\nWhen asked the \"Most overrated\" and \"Most underrated\" authors, Thomas\nDisch identified Isaac Asimov and Gene Wolfe, respectively [snip]" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Disch calling Asimov overrated is a bit like a fillet knife calling an\naxe overrated. Where is the finesse?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": " Since starting to read Asimov, I have always liked Asimov's work.\nI really liked his very readable science writing." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I haven't read his fiction for decades but certainly enjoyed it and \nagree that the introductory science writing of his was readable and \nunderstandable for me whose Physics knowledge was mediocre high school \nlevel." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": " I never cared much for Wolfe's work. What I tried was opaque to\nme, and thereafter, I avoided it. Since we are on a RIP thread, could\nsomeone please point me and others to Wolfe works that we might like\nalong with some whys?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "My experience was similar. I began _The Book of the New Sun_ once but \ndid not finish the second and remember nothing about it so will echo \nyour request with the added query; which authors is he similar to?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Me too. I remember when his _Fifth Head Of Cerebus_ came out I read the\ninitial \"Orbit\" novella and the book version and just had the feeling I had\ntotally missed the point. Opaque or maybe oblique indeed. I read _The\nShadow of the Torturer_, felt the same way and more or less wrote off Wolfe.\n\nAs to who is he similar to: There were definitely echoes of Vance in\n_The Shadow of the Torturer_. Maybe John M. Ford? I say that because\nI had a smililar \"I must have missed something\" feeling about his _The\nDragon Waiting_." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "------\ncolumbiaclosings.com\nWhat's not in Columbia anymore.." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "frank.scrooby", "address": "frank.scrooby at gmail.com" }, "date": "2019-04-17T06:40:51+00:00", "subject": "Re: Gene Wolfe (1931 - 2019)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hi all,\n\nSadly I have never been able to get my hands on a single Gene Wolfe story or book. He is relatively unknown in South Africa. Asimov, Clarke and Heinlein are pretty much the only SF writers you'd find on library shelves. Even they are getting scarce.\n\nI am saddened to learn of Mr. Wolfe's passing.\n\nRegards\nFrank" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "David Duffy", "address": "davidd at qimr.edu.au" }, "date": "2019-04-17T10:43:50+00:00", "subject": "Re: Gene Wolfe (1931 - 2019)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Titus G wrote:\nOn 17/04/19 2:31 PM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 12:47:26 -0700 (PDT), Ahasuerus\n wrote:\n\n I never cared much for Wolfe's work. What I tried was opaque to\nme, and thereafter, I avoided it. Since we are on a RIP thread, could\nsomeone please point me and others to Wolfe works that we might like\nalong with some whys?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "My experience was similar. I began _The Book of the New Sun_ once but \ndid not finish the second and remember nothing about it so will echo \nyour request with the added query; which authors is he similar to?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Charles Dickens? G.K. Chesterton? If you have read _The Death of Dr Island_, \n_The Fifth Head of Cerberus_ (SF) or _Peace_ (something else) and didn't \nenjoy them, then there's probably not much point reading other stuff - though\nmaybe _The Wizard Knight_ (High Fantasy) might be more approachable. Those\nwho enjoy tricksy whodunnits are one audience that would enjoy rereading\nWolfe to unpack all the Easter eggs (which are literal in some of\ncases). I think of him as a Modernist, a la Joyce etc.\n\nI will give away one famous bit of 5th Head, where our narrator goes up\nto top of the local library to find if they have any books by his father.\nAt the very top of the spiral ramp (where presumably he expects they\nwould be alphabetically) there are \"a misplaced astronautics text, _The\nMile-Long Spaceship_ by some German [Kate Wilhelm]...leaning against\na book about the assassination of Trotsky [Bernard Wolfe, _The Great\nPrince Died_ - *that* Wolfe wrote the SF novel _Limbo_]...and a\ncrumbling volume of Vernor Vinge's short stories that owed its presence\nthere some long dead librarian's mistaking V. Vinge for Winge...\". Since\n5th Head is about genetics, the fact that his father is an author at\nthe top of a helix among the SF novelists beginning with W, [and lives\nin the _Cave Canem_] is either extremely enjoyable or extremely tedious.\nThis is all in one sentence.\n\nCheers, David Duffy." } ] }, { "message_id": "<81c2aaca-0ecd-470d-8a3a-2a863f71b43a@googlegroups.com>", "from": { "name": "Ahasuerus", "address": "ahasuerus at email.com" }, "date": "2019-04-17T12:34:58+00:00", "subject": "Re: Gene Wolfe (1931 - 2019)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 10:31:45 PM UTC-4, Gene Wirchenko wrote:\nOn Tue, 16 Apr 2019 12:47:26 -0700 (PDT), Ahasuerus\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 2:28:05 PM UTC-4, leno... at yahoo.com wrote:\n[snip]" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "From Wikipedia:\n\nWhen asked the \"Most overrated\" and \"Most underrated\" authors,\nThomas Disch identified Isaac Asimov and Gene Wolfe, respectively\n[snip]" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Disch calling Asimov overrated is a bit like a fillet knife calling an\naxe overrated. Where is the finesse?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " Since starting to read Asimov, I have always liked Asimov's work.\nI really liked his very readable science writing.\n\n I never cared much for Wolfe's work. What I tried was opaque to\nme, and thereafter, I avoided it. [snip]" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "If you want \"clear and transparent prose\", you read Asimov. If you want\n\"opaque and oblique\", you read Wolfe. Hence the \"axe/fillet knife\"\ncomparison -- they have different functions. If you want to fell a tree,\na fillet knife is useless. If you want to make a fillet, an axe is\nuseless." } ] }, { "message_id": "<721c798d-f6f5-432e-8d54-431702470a73@googlegroups.com>", "from": { "name": "Jack Bohn", "address": "jack.bohn64 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2019-04-17T14:05:40+00:00", "subject": "Re: Gene Wolfe (1931 - 2019)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Gene Wirchenko wrote:\n    I never cared much for Wolfe's work.  What I tried was opaque to\nme, and thereafter, I avoided it.  Since we are on a RIP thread, could\nsomeone please point me and others to Wolfe works that we might like \nalong with some whys? " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, let me say I found The Book of the New Sun and the Soldier series understandable, at least as to what was happening and why (on the surface, if there were hidden depths, they remain that way).\n\nAmong short stories, if you can find them: ones I found clear and worthwhile, ranked: \"War Beneath the Tree\", \"My Book\", \"When I Was Ming the Merciless\", and \"How the Whip Came Back\". \"How I Lost the Second World War and Helped Turn Back the German Invasion\" is plain and amusing, but seemed to go on too long for what was in it; maybe it was playing a different game that was over my head." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "-Jack " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "William Hyde", "address": "wthyde1953 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2019-04-17T18:23:43+00:00", "subject": "Re: Gene Wolfe (1931 - 2019)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wednesday, April 17, 2019 at 12:32:04 AM UTC-4, Ted Nolan wrote:\nIn article , Titus G wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On 17/04/19 2:31 PM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 12:47:26 -0700 (PDT), Ahasuerus\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 2:28:05 PM UTC-4, leno... at yahoo.com wrote:\n[snip]" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": " From Wikipedia:\n\nWhen asked the \"Most overrated\" and \"Most underrated\" authors, Thomas\nDisch identified Isaac Asimov and Gene Wolfe, respectively [snip]" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "Disch calling Asimov overrated is a bit like a fillet knife calling an\naxe overrated. Where is the finesse?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": " Since starting to read Asimov, I have always liked Asimov's work..\nI really liked his very readable science writing." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I haven't read his fiction for decades but certainly enjoyed it and \nagree that the introductory science writing of his was readable and \nunderstandable for me whose Physics knowledge was mediocre high school \nlevel." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": " I never cared much for Wolfe's work. What I tried was opaque to\nme, and thereafter, I avoided it. Since we are on a RIP thread, could\nsomeone please point me and others to Wolfe works that we might like\nalong with some whys?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "My experience was similar. I began _The Book of the New Sun_ once but \ndid not finish the second and remember nothing about it so will echo \nyour request with the added query; which authors is he similar to?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Me too. I remember when his _Fifth Head Of Cerebus_ came out I read the\ninitial \"Orbit\" novella and the book version and just had the feeling I had\ntotally missed the point. Opaque or maybe oblique indeed. I read _The\nShadow of the Torturer_, felt the same way and more or less wrote off Wolfe. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I missed the point of virtually every Gene Wolfe work I read when I was young. But then I didn't get on with a number of great books until the second try (Pavane, Ulysses).\n\n\"The Shadow of the Torturer\", though, grabbed me right at the start and I rushed through it (missing mostly everything, as I discovered on a reread). I gave it a third read a few years ago and it seemed even better. Yes, I think there is more than a little Vance in it.\n\nThe \"Long Sun\" books I thought were excellent, but for some reason I stalled out in the first \"Short Sun\" book.\n\nI read and liked \"Soldier in the Mist\", but haven't read the sequels.\n\nHe became a favourite author, and I'm sad to hear of his passing.\nBut glad he wrote so much.\n\nIf I didn't like a single thing he'd written, I'd still remember him fondly because one of his collections was entitled \"The island of Dr Death and other stories and other stories\".\n\nWilliam Hyde" } ] } ] }