Subject: (whorl) Horn and Sinew's enmity (part 1)

From: Endymion9 <endymion9 at mindspring.com>
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 17:47:47 +0000

I'm about 1/4th way through OBW looking for clues to why Sinew and Horn hate
each other, as well as investigating the possibility that Sinew is an inhumi
(as I laid out in more detail in a previous post).

p.19 - Hoof says "Sinew's here too" Did Horn get the needler because Sinew
was there or the men in boat? I think Sinew.

p.20 - Horn already dreads Sinew. Wants him to be away from their home
often.
Sinew sneered when asked to use the telescope? (Only seems to have respect
for weapon technology.  Why?  Because of beastlike/hunter nature?)
Sinew could never sharpen a knife properly? (For such a hunter??) Nettle
did it for him. Although he (Sinew) pretended he could.

Not being able to sharpen a knife but pretending he could sounds inhumi-ish.

p.22 - Sinew carried out all the chairs
p.26 - Sinew supplied the roast
p.27 - I've always been gentle with you for your mother's sake (Horn to
Sinew).
Although I loved him (Sinew) I did not like him. Not then, although things
were different on Green. Nor did he like me, I feel certain.
I gave Sinew who had always eaten like fire in good times and bad a thick
slice with plenty of gristle.

>From these passages the idea I am toying with is that Sinew hunts animals,
drains the blood to feed himself and brings the meat to Horn and the rest of
the family.  This would explain Sinew's beastlike nature.

p.29 He titled his chair back against the wall, something that always
annoyed me.
Sinew came to his brother's defense surprising and pleasing me.
p.30 - at reference to chems Sinew thumps down chair?
Sinew used a bow???

The reference to Sinew using a bow and one that follows about making a boat
make me wonder if Sinew could be an inhumi/human crossbreed?
Characteristics of both.  I'm still wondering if Krait's mother took some
part of Sinew's *soul* which she imbued to Krait but also imparted something
to him (inhumi nature??).

p.32 - Sinew upset about conjuction coming

This passage doesn't sound very inhumi-ish.  Unless it's dreading what other
inhumi could do to his family.

p.34 - Horn envies Sinews energy and dexterity.
Promises meant very little to Sinew as I had reason to know.

I assume this has to do with Sinew's dissertion on Green.  Did Sinew ever
promise Horn anything?  Helping him get to the whorl?  Helping him on
Green?  I don't recall any mention of a promise.  Merely Sinew suddenly
fighting beside his father on the lander and on Green.  Did Horn assume this
was a promise?

p.35 - Sinew so close can feel breath on me.

Have we had any references to inhumi actually breathing?  Or have I just
assumed they do?

p.36 - He loped beside me like an ill bred dog.
I laughed, pretending a warmth of feeling that I did not feel.

p.37 - Horn offers needler. Sinew rejects. I recalled no argument of mine
had ever changed his mind. Sinew takes needler so Horn won't throw it away.

Does Sinew reject because he can't use a needler.  If he is some type of
human/inhumi crossbred can he handle tools better than inhumi but not as
good as other humans?

p.38 - Strangers. Visitors. Very plausible ones sometimes

Did Horn and Nettle invite Krait's mother in and feel guilty about it?  I
think others have already speculated that here.

p.41 - For so many years I feared that he would try to murder me, but in the
end it was I who would have murdered him.

Because of his betrayal on Green?  I still want to get to the bottom of why
Horn thinks Sinew hates him so much and why Horn has such enmity towards
Sinew.

p.42 - Sinew resembles Horn. Devilish?

Other's quotes this line previously.  Inhumi quality of mimicking?

Horn is jealous of Nettle's love for Sinew. He had already taken her from
me.

This line makes me think of an old George C. Scott movie "The Savage Is
Loose" (1974).  Where a man, his wife and their child are isolated on an
island.  The son and father start out very close friends.  As the child
grows and develops sexual desires he begins to compete with the father for
the mother's affections.  I'm not suggesting any incestuous feelings between
Sinew and Nettle.  The line in OBW does suggest a more normal rivalry
between a growing father and son.  But what could drive it to such levels of
hatred.  Merely Horn jealous of a baby stealing his wife's attention?  I
doubt it is the case here.

p. 56 - Try to find an honest man anywhere who would willingly say that
Sinew's moral development ever benefited from anything. He was brave on
Green, at least, and loyal for a time.

p.73 - Sinew will build a boat.  It will be good that he watch it grow under
his hands.

While pursuing this line of thought I came across other lines that raised
questions for me.  Some of the following are just comments.

p.39  Why would accepting Morrow's boat have resulted in a "serious loss" ?

p.56 - I know better now, of course.
About the gods.  Because he is Pas/Silk/Horn?  Other's have mentioned this
reference.

p.57 - Remora reference to gods of whorl preventing gods of Blue from
scourge - ing.

The gods of whorl protecting Blue worshippers?  I think the gods definitely
have a presence on Blue.  Not just Scylla.

p.59-62 - Prayed to Pas, Scylla & Outsider.  Then leatherskin (6 legs)
grasps boat.  Possessed by Scylla?
Once again others have already mentioned this ref.

p.65 - Horn wishes for a daughter or two.   Interesting foreshadow of Fava
and Jahlee?
Horn is 35, thick bodied and balding.  <others have mentioned>

p.74 - Horn dreamed that he had killed Silk.

By taking his body as Silk lay dying?

p.88 - What draws Mucor to the Mucor's Rock?  Not just her spirit but in
body she travels there and stays long times.  So Marble moves there with
her.

p.92-93 - Marble predicts Horn's death, rebirth.  Riding a beast w/3 horns.
He rode it when he was fatally wounded on Green.  Do we know what beast this
was that Horn rode on Green.  I don't recall reading it in IGJ.

p.95 Silk tells Mucor it will be dangerous for Horn to come.  It will
endanger Silk and Hyacinth.  He tells Mucor not to reveal his whereabouts.
Why is it dangerous?  Because the Travaguanti <sp?> don't want him to leave
the whorl?  Why is it dangerous to Hyacinth?  Because they use her as
blackmail to keep Silk from running off?  Is that what finally caused
Hyacinth to die?  Because Silk had decided to go to Blue?

p.101 How did Marble lie to Hammerstone?  So bad that he would want to kill
her.  They never completed their daughter?  I know I'm foggy on this but I
thought they did complete their daughter (Olivine)?  Am I having another
Alzheimer's moment?

Well that's as far as I've gotten.  Will post more later.

Dennis/Endy
http://home.mindspring.com/~endymion9/index.htm

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---

From: Fernando Q. Gouvea <fqgouvea at colby.edu>
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 09:42:15 +0000

One thing that these quotes suggest is that (at the beginning, at least)
there is more enmity on Horn's part than on Sinew's. Horn depicts himself
as a father who just won't give his son a chance, who already knows before
the test comes that Sinew will fail. This might be based on past
experience; in fact, Horn intimates to us that it is. But it's hard to see
how Sinew could have earned back his father's friendship and confidence
given this attitude on Horn's side. So I am under the impression that this
hatred and distrust is Horn's doing at some level. But why?

Fernando

-- 

Fernando Q. Gouvea                      
Department of Mathematics          Editor, FOCUS and MAA Online
Colby College                      Mathematical Association of America
Waterville, ME 04901               http://www.maa.org
fqgouvea at colby.edu                      
==========================================================

What garlic is to food, insanity is to art.

---

From: Adam Stephanides <adamsteph at earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 15:46:11 +0000

Fernando Q. Gouvea wrote:
> there is more enmity on Horn's part than on Sinew's. [snip] So I am under the impression that this

That's my impression too.  According to IGJ, the extreme poverty Horn
and Nettle underwent during their first years on Blue was caused partly
by Nettle's being pregnant with Sinew and later having to feed him.  I
once suggested (in connection with a speculation as to the Secret, which
I won't repeat), that this may have led Horn to consciously or
unconsciously wish Sinew dead.  Even if my speculation as to the Secret
is wrong, my guess at Horn's feelings may be right, and Horn's guilt at
these feelings may unconsciously lead him to ascribe his own hostility
to Sinew.

--Adam

---

From: Tim Boolos <timboolos at yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 07:55:26 +0000

--- Adam Stephanides <adamsteph at earthlink.net> wrote:
> > there is more enmity on Horn's part than on
> Sinew's. [snip] So I am under the impression that
> this
> That's my impression too.  [ *snip* ] my guess at
Horn's feelings may be right,
> and Horn's guilt at

I wonder if this isn't part of the difficulties
Horn/Silk is having with the merger, so to speak. 
I've posted before how the Horn side of the merged
entity would be let down over Silk's failings, both
real and inmagined (not least of which would be his
{Silk's} running after Hyacinth at the end of EfLS.) 
Could this have a tint of Silk's disappointment with
the way Horn treated Sinew growing up?

Knowing that the narrator is part of the story and his
purposes in writing the narrative are also part of the
story I have to question why this shows up so often in
OBW and only to a lesser degree in IGJ.  Could the
purpose of the narrator be changing as the narrative
progresses.  Wolfe has done this before with Soldier
of Arete where Latro clearly (we learn at the end from
Pindaros) had more in mind than just setting down his
day to day events.  My theory remains that the
Horn/Silk merged entity is using the narrative of
tBoTSS (amoung other things) to work out its identity
and that the motives and purposes behind the work in
progress are changing as we move along.

Emrys

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