{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/1074", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 1074, "subject": "Odds and Ends", "messages": 3, "voices": 2, "first": "2001-01-26T15:09:53+00:00", "last": "2001-01-29T12:18:59+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Jordan", "address": "jbjordan at gnt.net" }, "date": "2001-01-26T15:09:53+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Odds and Ends", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Am re-reading OBW and IGJ in preparation for RTW (which just arrived). \nNoticed a couple of things that MAY have been discussed already -- I did \nreview all the posts I've kept -- and thought I'd share them here.\n\n1. At the end of OBW, Horn hears himself being called to the shore as \nBabbie. Someone already mentioned that Babbie is to Horn (semihuman to \nhuman) as Horn is the Caller (semidivine to divine). Horn goes an lays his \nown head on the lap of the Caller, as Babbie lay his head on the laps of \nHorn and Seawrack. Who is the Caller? Someone suggested the Outsider. \nMaybe, but explicitly he is a Vanished God, and this is said a couple pages \nlater, when Horn tells Brother and Sister about the Vanished People and the \nVanished God in their woods. I doubt if it's any more complicated than that.\n\n2. Krait is like Sinew because Krait's mother drank from Sinew. Thus, the \ntraits gained by the inhumi are specific to the persons they drink from , \nand are passed on. In Fava's second tale, she says that when she saw a man \non Green, she thought that a human form was the best form one of her kind \ncould take, indicating that her genetic history includes human \nblood/attributes. Remember that Wolfe is not a Darwinian, but a \nLamarckian. Mom did not have to be gravid at the time she returned to \nGreen. She just had to have drunk from baby Sinew before making the trip.\n\n3. It's probably stupid of me to suggest this now, since it may be taken up \nin RTW, but I'm now betting that iron is part of the secret of the inhumi. \nBlood is iron-based, and the iron shackles on Jahlee seem to affect her. \nAnd it is in this context that Horn threatens her with the secret. In spite \nof all the ins and outs of the discussion of the Secret, in which I've \nadded my own share of confusion, the Secret seems to be something simple \nand immediate, and iron might just be the answer.\n\n4. On Horn's hatred of Sinew. I have not seen anyone suggest this, but I \nwonder if Horn has some reason to suspect that Sinew is not his child, but \nthe child of an adultery of Nettle's? This would explain a lot, even if \nHorn were wrong in his suspicions. At any rate, it is only my own suspicion.\n\nPatera Nutria\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Jordan", "address": "jbjordan at gnt.net" }, "date": "2001-01-27T13:04:45+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Odds and Ends", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 03:09 PM 1/26/2001 -0600, I wrote:\n3. It's probably stupid of me to suggest this now, since it may be taken \nup in RTW, but I'm now betting that iron is part of the secret of the \ninhumi. Blood is iron-based, and the iron shackles on Jahlee seem to \naffect her. And it is in this context that Horn threatens her with the \nsecret. In spite of all the ins and outs of the discussion of the Secret, \nin which I've added my own share of confusion, the Secret seems to be \nsomething simple and immediate, and iron might just be the answer." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " I'd meant to add: (a) the weapon provided Horn is a sword, not a \nsluggun or a needler. Is this because iron is effective against inhumi, \nwhile the other kinds of weapons aren't? And (b) Horn does not want to use \nthis secret, or give it out, because he does not want to destroy the inhumi.\n\nNutria\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "mark millman", "address": "millman at us.ncipher.com" }, "date": "2001-01-29T12:18:59+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Odds and Ends", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Nutria,\n\nI'm afraid I can't agree with your iron theory. Wasn't Quetzal \nkilled by the wound from a slug gun? Furthermore, I believe \n(though I don't have my Long Sun books here for reference) \nthat we've been told how needlers work, and it's implied that \nthe needles must be ferromagnetic, if not actually ferrous (which \nwould be the obvious assumption), as the needle guns rely on \na principle similar to magnetic levitation to propel their needles \n(i.e., they're hand-held railguns). Although I assume that slugs \nare made of lead, I can't see why they couldn't be made of soft \niron, other than the fact that it would be expensive and wasteful \nto do so compared to using lead.\n\nBesides, to be frank, the sword Horn was given didn't strike me \nas being made of any conventional(ly human) material.\n\nAs far as your point (b), though, I'm in perfect agreement.\n\nNacre" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 01:04 PM 27-01-01 -0600, Nutria (James B. Jordan) wrote:\nAt 03:09 PM 1/26/2001 -0600, I wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "3. It's probably stupid of me to suggest \nthis now, since it may be taken up in \nRTW, but I'm now betting that iron is \npart of the secret of the inhumi. Blood \nis iron-based, and the iron shackles on \nJahlee seem to affect her. And it is in this \ncontext that Horn threatens her with the \nsecret. In spite of all the ins and outs of \nthe discussion of the Secret, in which I've \nadded my own share of confusion, the \nSecret seems to be something simple and \nimmediate, and iron might just be the \nanswer." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " I'd meant to add: (a) the weapon provided Horn is \na sword, not a sluggun or a needler. Is this because iron is \neffective against inhumi, while the other kinds of weapons \naren't? And (b) Horn does not want to use this secret, or \ngive it out, because he does not want to destroy the inhumi.\n\nNutria" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] } ] }