{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/1093", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 1093, "subject": "RTTW up to pg. 81 SPOILERS", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "2001-02-03T07:50:50+00:00", "last": "2001-02-05T10:33:38+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Sheila Herndon", "address": "skherndon at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2001-02-03T07:50:50+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) RTTW up to pg. 81 SPOILERS", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm sorry, I just can't help myself - I am enjoying\nreading the book so much that I feel I must talk about\nit with someone, even though I don't normally post\nhere much...\n\nspoiler space\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nI'm keeping a piece of paper with me while I read\nto jot down page numbers for scenes or thoughts\nI really like...\n\np. 47. The \"Silent Shout\" section. I am betting\nthis just has to be a reference to something that\nI don't have the background info for, if someone\ncan enlighten me? thanks. but even without getting\nthe allusion, I love this section. It's beautiful.\nAnd I love how Pig looks at him (I mean, not really\nlooks at him) and says basically -hey, didn't you\never hear nothing that didn't make a noise before?\nand didn't someone hear it with you? (like as if\nhe's trying to say, calm down buddy, it's ok)\n(and this is a nice allegory for saying how some\npeople beleive in god, some don't. some hear the\nnoise, and agree on it, some don't.)\n\nspeaking of allegory, there must be a lot I miss,\nbut there is some stuff I get - e.g. if the blind\nlead the blind then they'll both fall into a ditch,\nbut Wolfe makes a wonderful gentle joke here and has\nthe literally blind guy guide Horn away from falling\ninto a (shallow (hmm?)) ditch - the literally blind\nguy can see ...oh maybe that's obvious, but I love it.\n\nand then there's Pig figuring out they're in a forest,\nand expressing doubt, but Horn not - a role reversal\nfrom the ditch scene - I'm thinking Wolfe is\ntelling us to think of the opening passage of Inferna\n-\nin a wood wandering - this is just too cool! that\nrole reversal I mean. I love how the roles of guide\nare not fixed. maybe this is just me, sorry.\n\nbut another thing I like about all these levels\nin the story - some authors do this and it seems\ncontrived and as though they're beating you about\nthe head. but it doesn't seem that way to me here -\nespecially given all the previuos books. It's not\nlike an author grabbing my face and looking into\nmy eyes and saying \"You *will* think of Dante because\nI am so clever\" not a bit. Some authors write like\nthat, imho. This is like someone walking up to\nJesus on earth and asking him what he does and\nhe says, oh, I'm an apprentice carpenter, I help\nmy dad in his shop. That's one level, sure. \n\nor, I guess I am tempted to draw other parellels\nin my attitude - the tea ceremony - performed with\nhumble implements. outside of the ceremony, it's just\na raw cup. that's the truth. but it's not the whole\ntruth. and it's not contrived to point that out.\n\nthat's how I feel about reading this section. it\nhas many pleasant layers.\n\np. 48 The scene where he explains what the Neighbors\ncalled the place. \"Ours\" and then Oreb says \"No cry!\"\nwow. that is just the most amazing scene. Wolfe has\nmade me long to know what this place is - maybe you\nonly get this from reading all of the books? maybe\nyou are thinking - I'm finally going to know - it's\nUshash (spelling, sorry) - it's Urth - it's etc.\nHorn is going to tell us which words the Neighbors\nused. Wolfe has made this suspense build up - what\nHorn is going to say next is very important to us.\nAnd then when he actual reveals the word - \"Ours\"\nWolfe is a magician who has switched the target -\nsaying - see? I made you want to know what this\nplace really is. and I'm telling you now. You just\ndon't know I'm telling you. This answer is the\nimportant one. \n\nand Horn cries, because he wants something to be\n\"His\". maybe?\n\nand incidently - wow, when I read the first page and\nsaw the shift to 3rd person. floored. and so it\nwas even more cool to be able to read about this\nscene first hand *and* second hand when he mentions\nit in his journal later.\n\np. 60 \"It's something we get from you, a need to\nbecome more and more like you, until we're as human\nas we can possibly be.\"\n \"We feel it too,\" I told her, \"though not always \nas strongly as we should.\"\n\nI've gone on and on too much so I'll stop here\ninstead of rambling about this scene, but just to\nsay, wow, I love it. \n\n\nI don't really participate enough to merit a name,\nthough I suppose if I were to pick one - does anyone\nknow the name of the little fern-like looking plant\nthat grows on the side of roads and when you touch\nit the leaves react and fold up? that's a cool plant.\n\nanyway, back to lurking, and I'm looking forward\nwith great anticipation to reading what everyone\nelse has to say after I finish the book. If anyone\nfollows up to this, and is going to refer to anything\nthat happens after p. 81, please let me know which\npage numbers you're going to be using, because\nI absolutely don't want to be spoiled. thanks." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Peter Westlake", "address": "spectacled.bear at pobox.com" }, "date": "2001-02-05T10:33:38+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) RTTW up to pg. 81 SPOILERS", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 07:50 2001-02-03 -0800, Sheila wrote:\nI'm keeping a piece of paper with me while I read\nto jot down page numbers for scenes or thoughts\nI really like...\n\np. 47. The \"Silent Shout\" section. I am betting\nthis just has to be a reference to something that\nI don't have the background info for, if someone\ncan enlighten me?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't have the book with me, but I recall taking\nit to mean the sunrise.\n\nSpectacled Bear, with a new email address." } ] } ] }