# Digest whorl.v012.n037 *The Whorl list — 4 messages, 4 voices, 05 Feb 2001* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### Sheila Herndon *05 Feb 2001, 07:51* > --- whorl-errors at lists1.ba.best.com wrote: > Subject: Cool plant > Found it! It's a tropical weed called mimosa pudica > or sensitive-plant, > You find it > wild at roadside in > some of the Gulf states--that's where you live, I > presume. Where I grew up, but do not now live. > Subject: Re: (whorl) RTTW up to pg. 81 SPOILERS > p. 47. The "Silent Shout" section. I am betting > I don't have the book with me, but I recall taking > it to mean the sunrise. yes indeed. but is he referring to a poem that I haven't read that described the sunrise in this way? it's lovely. I seem to recall a verse in the bible that describes the hills shouting the glory of god, or some such. So perhaps Wolfe was thinking of this, and to himself, the hills must always be shouting, but we don't hear them - so it's a silent shout. but, truly, I suspect, maybe he's also referring to a poem or idea that has been used somewhere before, which I have not come across, so if that's case, someone bring it up please. thanks. I am goin to bow out of the list for a while, until I finish the book - but I will save messages and go through them later. I was wondering if anyone else had already brought up that Silk/Horn/Oreb is a trinity? I'm sure this must have already been brought up, but is there a search utility for the list? It's cool though ... I can't beleive I didn't think of it sooner - Silk would be like the "god" part, inside of the human part - Horn, and Oreb is a holy spirit part - like in the scene of the baptism where the holy spirit descends int he form of a dove - except what's cool are all the differences in the story - In face, if we imagine that Horn's spirit has been transported - then Horn is actually the "god" part, even though he's more human, and Silk is the "body" part, and Oreb who is the holy spirit is a night chough, black, who can see in the dark, whereas a dove is white, and innocent. it's all very interesting. and Horn wants to be more like a human. and in a way, I feel this is meant to represent people wanting to be more perfect, or more godlike, but there is an irony in the story that Horn is the 'actual' human part - but is allegorically representing the 'soul' part. or at least, that's waht I am imagining so far. I could be totally offbase, it has been known to happen. :) thanks for the name. I had trouble finding that plant, myself. mimosa --- ### George M. Terry *05 Feb 2001, 09:15 · follows Sheila Herndon* Long time list observer, first time poster... One of the things that struck me in RTW along this vein is the idea that Horn's death/re-incarnation/resurrection is very Christ-like. He dies on Green pretty selflessly, and is re-incarnated/resurrected as Silk. This is especially seen in the scene with Olivine at the Calde's palace where Horn/Silk makes the offering of his body and blood in the form of bread and wine to the Outsider. Perhaps this movement of Horn->Silk mirrors the essence of the spiritual journey for Gene Wolfe? I don't think that Horn is stupid...he knew Silk, and even says at one point in RTW that he realizes he bears a physical resemblance to Silk since returning to the Whorl. I think it represents a basic humility in Horn. Horn had previously immersed himself in Silk, certainly viewing him as an model of what is 'right' and 'good'. In his journey, learning to love, learning the inhumi secret, he becomes more and more like Silk, until at the moment of his death, dying for a mission of compassion for New Viron, he actually becomes Silk. Would this not be the goal that Wolfe would seek in his own life? Ultimately I think that Horn merely 'incarnates' Silk, in much the way that Jesus incarnated the divine logos. Any theory that looks at a 'trinity' must include the Outsider, as well. George Terry > I was wondering if anyone else had already brought > up that Silk/Horn/Oreb is a trinity? I'm sure this > must have already been brought up, but is there > a search utility for the list? It's cool though ... > I can't beleive I didn't think of it sooner - > Silk would be like the "god" part, inside of the > human part - Horn, and Oreb is a holy spirit > part - like in the scene of the baptism where > the holy spirit descends int he form of a dove - > except what's cool are all the differences in the > story - > > In face, if we imagine that Horn's spirit has > been transported - then Horn is actually the > "god" part, even though he's more human, and > Silk is the "body" part, and Oreb who is the holy > spirit is a night chough, black, who can see in > the dark, whereas a dove is white, and innocent. > > it's all very interesting. and Horn wants to be more > like a human. and in a way, I feel this is meant > to represent people wanting to be more perfect, or > more godlike, but there is an irony in the story > that Horn is the 'actual' human part - but is > allegorically representing the 'soul' part. or at > least, that's waht I am imagining so far. I could > be totally offbase, it has been known to happen. :) > > thanks for the name. I had trouble finding that > plant, myself. > > mimosa > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. > http://shopping.yahoo.com/ > > *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun. --- ### Joel Priddy *05 Feb 2001, 20:36 · follows George M. Terry* > Emrys wrote: > Maybe I missed it, but why did the 'divine' Silk > possess Pig? Just a god going for a Sunday stroll. He possessed Pig for the same reason he listens silently from the windows. BTW, is just me, or does "The Divine Silk" sound like a transvestite torch singer? > Are we now to accept that the Ghost of Patera Pike > at the manteion was in fact a ghost? Yes. > What was the deal with Dr. Crane's ghost? Was it > brought on solely by being at/in Sick Bay? Erm, I'm going for no ghost, just visualizing a memory. But maybe I'm forgetting who wrote the book. > "I would never have used it while Nettle was alive", > confused me, Jahlee didn't kill Nettle, did she? > Didn't Nettle go with Silk and Marble? No and No. > Where was the Whorl going and why? Aren't all/most > of the landers gone? If so why leave? It's just going. The gods were more interested the journey than the destination. After all, at the destination all their worshippers go away. So this journey doesn't have a destination. > If Silk is so GOOD, as Hoof and Clute suggest (and I > believe, as well) why did he arrange to kill so many > Inhumu, in the city on Green, and at the wedding? He didn't arrange to kill a bunch of inhumi, he arranged to be killed a couple. He just underestimated Juganu's recruitment abilities. Then he had to help lead a battle to keep the wedding party/ town getting munched. > What happened to Chenille and/or Auk? How did Oreb > get a black ring that morphed into Seawrak's ring? Seawrack gave it to him, and, like a mood ring, it looked different because it wasn't on his finger. > Finally the scene of Hyacinth's body. What > happened? > It seems from the wounds that needed binding that > Silk > may indeed have committed/attempted, but surely the > mere entrance to Silk's body of Horn's spirit wasn't > enough for the body to physically recover. Maybe > I'm > looking at this wrong and the cuts were incidental > to > Hyacinth's funeral sacrafice, but I've thought since > IGJ that Silk was contemplating/committing suicide. According to the Neighbors, Silk just didn't have the will to live anymore. I'm chalking it up to Silk the super-embryo healing once the controlling mind was binging the wounds instead of opening them. cephalothorax --- ### Jeffrey Meyers *06 Feb 2001, 13:12 · follows Joel Priddy* >> If Silk is so GOOD, as Hoof and Clute suggest (and I >> believe, as well) why did he arrange to kill so many >> Inhumu, in the city on Green, and at the wedding? > Joel Priddy wrote: > He didn't arrange to kill a bunch of inhumi, he > arranged to be killed by a couple. He just underestimated > Juganu's recruitment abilities. For him to have had such highly-developed leadership skills Juganu must have sneaked a little more of Horn/Silk's blood than we might have guessed. As humble and self-effacing as Horn/Silk was, it would make sense that he would not make a big deal of Juganu's drinking a bit a night or two, especially while they were stuck for three days on the boat. (After all, Horn/Silk was planning his own suicide. What was the harm?) He can't be faulted for not adequately thinking through the implications of the mixture of his blood (leadership) with Hoof's (impetuous youth), which Juganu was surely tasting now and then. Patera Bunny *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun. ---