Subject: Re: (whorl) [big spoiler] Narrative technique in _Return_, and

From: Adam Stephanides <adamsteph at earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 10:23:27 +0000

on 2/8/01 6:35 AM, Dan Rabin at wolfe-lists at danrabin.com wrote:

> In _Return_, we pretty much get a chapter-by-chapter alternation
> between the homeward-bound story and the _Whorl_ story, told in very
> different styles.  Homecoming-protagonist pretty much continues his
> persona from _Green's_, but as Whorl-narrator he adopts a very
> mannered avoidance of identification with the Whorl-protagonist: he
> never names that person (always referred to via third-person pronouns
> or as "the man who...").

Not quite.  The third-person sections are not written by the
Homecoming-protagonist, but by the editors of BoTSS, Hoof, Hide and their
wives, as stated in the Afterword.  Which raises the question: why do the
editors keep up the ambiguity over the protagonist's identity until almost
the end?  One possibility is that they don't want to admit that Horn is
dead, but there are a couple of problems with this: apparently Hide and Hoof
never did believe that the protagonist was Horn (see the start of Hoof's
narration on p. 337); and when the editors finally do name the protagonist,
they unambiguously call him Silk.  Another case where the editors create a
mystery and I don't see why: it's clear that "Horn" gives an eye to Pig, but
as far as I can recall this is never stated.

--Adam

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---

From: Adam Stephanides <adamsteph at earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 12:33:30 +0000

on 2/8/01 5:21 PM, Dan Schmidt at dfan at harmonixmusic.com wrote:

> Adam Stephanides <adamsteph at earthlink.net> writes:
> 

> | Not quite.  The third-person sections are not written by the
> | Homecoming-protagonist, but by the editors of BoTSS, Hoof, Hide and their
> | wives, as stated in the Afterword.
> 
> I thought the Afterword said that they only wrote the last couple of
> Whorl chapters (after Horn stopped writing).

No: the editors write: "He [the protagonist] left us no written record of
his brief sojourns in Old Viron and the West Pole, but he spoke of them
often.  In this volume we have re-created them to the best of our ability,
based upon these conversations." (p. 409)

--Adam

---

From: Jeffrey Meyers <jeffmeyers at earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 13:00:20 +0000

Adam Stephanides <adamsteph at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Another case where the editors create a

It's made explicit in one of the last few chapters.  I had the same question
after reading the recovery room section.  I wondered if "Horn" had donated
his own eye well before he is described, in passing (I can't find the page #
now), as having one eye, or maybe as observing someone out of his one good
eye.  Someone else may be able to locate the page number.

Patera Bunny

---

From: Adam Stephanides <adamsteph at earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 1956 00:02:39 +0000

on 2/8/01 7:29 PM, Dan Schmidt at dfan at harmonixmusic.com wrote:

> | on 2/8/01 5:21 PM, Dan Schmidt at dfan at harmonixmusic.com wrote:
> | 
> | > Adam Stephanides <adamsteph at earthlink.net> writes:
> | >
> | > | Not quite.  The third-person sections are not written by the
> | > | Homecoming-protagonist, but by the editors of BoTSS, Hoof, Hide
> | > | and their wives, as stated in the Afterword.
> | > 
> | > I thought the Afterword said that they only wrote the last couple of
> | > Whorl chapters (after Horn stopped writing).
> | 
> | No: the editors write: "He [the protagonist] left us no written record of
> | his brief sojourns in Old Viron and the West Pole, but he spoke of them
> | often.  In this volume we have re-created them to the best of our ability,
> | based upon these conversations." (p. 409)
> 
> OK, we're remembering the same text, but interpreting it differently.
> I took that to mean that he did write about his earlier time in the
> Whorl (e.g., meeting Pig and Hound) but the editors picked it up after
> he arrived in Old Viron.  Otherwise I would have expected them to
> write 'the Whorl' rather than 'Old Viron and the West Pole'.

I think that when the editors say "Old Viron," they are including its
territory as well (we are told in the list of "Proper Names in the Text"
that Endroad is subject to Viron).  In any case "Horn" (I will leave off the
question marks in the future) and company arrive in Old Viron proper in
Chapter Ten, long before the end of Horn's account.  I guess it's possible
that Horn had written the third-person sections up to that point and the
editors continued the third-person narrative in Horn's style and
interpolated sections throughout the remainder of Horn's account.  But I
very much doubt it.  For one thing, in the preceding paragraph the editors
tell us what Horn did leave a written account of, and they don't say
anything there about the Whorl.

--Adam