{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/1120", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 1120, "subject": "Digest whorl.v012.n042 (RTTW SPOILERS!)", "messages": 3, "voices": 2, "first": "2001-02-09T10:32:34+00:00", "last": "2001-02-12T09:32:33+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Shannon Appelcline", "address": "shannona at skotos.net" }, "date": "2001-02-09T10:32:34+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Re: Digest whorl.v012.n042 (RTTW SPOILERS!)", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: Dan Schmidt \nOK, we're remembering the same text, but interpreting it differently.\nI took that to mean that he did write about his earlier time in the\nWhorl (e.g., meeting Pig and Hound) but the editors picked it up after\nhe arrived in Old Viron. Otherwise I would have expected them to\nwrite 'the Whorl' rather than 'Old Viron and the West Pole'." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It seems very unlikely that Hornsilk would suddenly change his entire \nwriting style as well as the method he's been using to tell his story ... \nall for no particular reason. By Occam's Razor the third-person narrative \nin RTTW was written by Horn's sons.\n\nAnother point on narrative style:\n\n* The place in RTTW where I really started to wonder if Horn was Horn was \nwhen he was speaking to Silk in Blood's mansion. It became blatantly \nobvious that their styles of speech were very, very similar. That pedantic, \ntotally truthful style of speech that we've become so familiar with \nthroughout the Short Sun series.\n\nI'm wondering if this is intended as a real clue or if it's just how the \nVironese speak. We have four books that are good samples of Horn's writing \n(though edited by Nettle). We also have samples of his speech in those \nbooks, which we probably can presume are less edited. How does Horn's \nspeech in TBotLS compare with his speech in TBotSS?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Pat O'Leary\" \n1. Why was the farmer who gave Silk/horn the seed so \nfearful/hostile/violent toward him?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "At least throughout his writing of TBotSS Hornsilk has a real persecution \ncomplex. From Sinew to Marrow to Babbie ... then throughout the books ... \nHornsilk attributes to people the worst possible reasons for doing things. \nBy the end of the books I questioned Hornsilk whenever he said someone was \nout to get him.\n\nI'm not entirely sure *what* caused this persecution complex." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "That's sort of how I read them. If this is the case then each letter is a \nformal overture of the\ncentral narrative method: Impersonation." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "And, that's actually the theme of both series of books as well, in mirror \nimages. TBotLS was a book about Silk written by Horn. TBotSS was a book \nabout Horn written by Silk." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: BMeyer7 at aol.com\n5. There has previously been a suggestion that maybe Horn/Silk was an\ninhumi. It has been noted that one feature of inhumi is that they don't eat\nmuch. On p. 361, it is said of Horn/Silk: \"sometimes it seemed like he was\njust pretending to eat and drink, and this was one of them.\" Wow! This is a\nGene Wolfe red flare signal of something isn't it?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "There was another pretty big hint in RttW. It's commented a few times that \ninhumi have really bad legs. And who spends the whole series walking around \nwith a staff because he's partially crippled? Is this really a result of \nhis 20-year-old wound at Blood's or something more?\n\nI don't think that we can guarantee Hornsilk isn't an inhumi just because \nhe *is* Silk, as that could be a result of a download going on top of \ninhumi-memory-transfer-through-blood.\n\nI *doubt* Hornsilk was an ihumi at this point, but the question is: why \nwould Wolfe offer so many hints that he might be?\n\nShannon\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Shannon Appelcline", "address": "shannona at skotos.net" }, "date": "2001-02-09T10:32:34+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Re: Digest whorl.v012.n042 (RTTW SPOILERS!)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: Dan Schmidt \nOK, we're remembering the same text, but interpreting it differently.\nI took that to mean that he did write about his earlier time in the\nWhorl (e.g., meeting Pig and Hound) but the editors picked it up after\nhe arrived in Old Viron. Otherwise I would have expected them to\nwrite 'the Whorl' rather than 'Old Viron and the West Pole'." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It seems very unlikely that Hornsilk would suddenly change his entire \nwriting style as well as the method he's been using to tell his story ... \nall for no particular reason. By Occam's Razor the third-person narrative \nin RTTW was written by Horn's sons.\n\nAnother point on narrative style:\n\n* The place in RTTW where I really started to wonder if Horn was Horn was \nwhen he was speaking to Silk in Blood's mansion. It became blatantly \nobvious that their styles of speech were very, very similar. That pedantic, \ntotally truthful style of speech that we've become so familiar with \nthroughout the Short Sun series.\n\nI'm wondering if this is intended as a real clue or if it's just how the \nVironese speak. We have four books that are good samples of Horn's writing \n(though edited by Nettle). We also have samples of his speech in those \nbooks, which we probably can presume are less edited. How does Horn's \nspeech in TBotLS compare with his speech in TBotSS?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Pat O'Leary\" \n1. Why was the farmer who gave Silk/horn the seed so \nfearful/hostile/violent toward him?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "At least throughout his writing of TBotSS Hornsilk has a real persecution \ncomplex. From Sinew to Marrow to Babbie ... then throughout the books ... \nHornsilk attributes to people the worst possible reasons for doing things. \nBy the end of the books I questioned Hornsilk whenever he said someone was \nout to get him.\n\nI'm not entirely sure *what* caused this persecution complex." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "That's sort of how I read them. If this is the case then each letter is a \nformal overture of the\ncentral narrative method: Impersonation." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "And, that's actually the theme of both series of books as well, in mirror \nimages. TBotLS was a book about Silk written by Horn. TBotSS was a book \nabout Horn written by Silk." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: BMeyer7 at aol.com\n5. There has previously been a suggestion that maybe Horn/Silk was an\ninhumi. It has been noted that one feature of inhumi is that they don't eat\nmuch. On p. 361, it is said of Horn/Silk: \"sometimes it seemed like he was\njust pretending to eat and drink, and this was one of them.\" Wow! This is a\nGene Wolfe red flare signal of something isn't it?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "There was another pretty big hint in RttW. It's commented a few times that \ninhumi have really bad legs. And who spends the whole series walking around \nwith a staff because he's partially crippled? Is this really a result of \nhis 20-year-old wound at Blood's or something more?\n\nI don't think that we can guarantee Hornsilk isn't an inhumi just because \nhe *is* Silk, as that could be a result of a download going on top of \ninhumi-memory-transfer-through-blood.\n\nI *doubt* Hornsilk was an ihumi at this point, but the question is: why \nwould Wolfe offer so many hints that he might be?\n\nShannon\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Spectacled Bear", "address": "spectacled.bear at pobox.com" }, "date": "2001-02-12T09:32:33+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Re: Digest whorl.v012.n042 (RTTW SPOILERS!)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "At 10:32 2001-02-09 -0800, Shannon Appelcline wrote:\n..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Another point on narrative style:\n\n* The place in RTTW where I really started to wonder if Horn was Horn was \nwhen he was speaking to Silk in Blood's mansion. It became blatantly \nobvious that their styles of speech were very, very similar. That pedantic, \ntotally truthful style of speech that we've become so familiar with \nthroughout the Short Sun series.\n\nI'm wondering if this is intended as a real clue or if it's just how the \nVironese speak. We have four books that are good samples of Horn's writing \n(though edited by Nettle). We also have samples of his speech in those \nbooks, which we probably can presume are less edited. How does Horn's \nspeech in TBotLS compare with his speech in TBotSS?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "No-one else from Viron talks like that, with the sole and interesting\nexception of Hound. Does he just imitate Silk? He clearly knows of him.\nOr am I imagining it?\n\nSpectacled Bear." } ] } ] }