{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/113", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 113, "subject": "cant, etc.", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "1997-02-21T16:38:40+00:00", "last": "1997-03-10T17:59:25+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Joshua A. Solomon", "address": "j.solomon at ucl.ac.uk" }, "date": "1997-02-21T16:38:40+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) cant, etc.", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Been lurking awhile. Have read most Wolfe thanks to\nrave review of SHADOW in Isaac Asimov's Science Fiction Magazine.\nLONG SUN certainly is full of puzzles/half-baked ideas.\nEver since I tried--unsuccessfully--to work out the \"timeline\"\nfor FREE LIVE FREE, I've been reluctant to work hard at unravelling\nWolfe's more obscure plotknots. \n\tAt first I was disappointed with LONG SUN because it seemed that\nthe writing wasn't anywhere near as tight as the writing in, say, \nNEW SUN (the original tetralogy). After lurking here I now realize\nthat these puzzles are what makes LONG SUN worth reading.\nA few miscellaneous items:\nPalatine (it's not hilly) is an affluent (moreso than\nBarrington, anyway) northwest Chicago suburb.\n(Charlie) Trotters is a trendy Chicago restaurant.\nAnd from James Joyce's Ulysses (Penguin page 59): \"Bus her, wap\nin rogue's rum lingo, for, O, my dimber wapping dell.\"\nUnless I find more cant in Ulysses, I probably wont post more soon\nbecause I've just started it. It's 933 pages. Maybe I'll reread\nLONG SUN after that.\n\nbee\n\nQuestions or problems to whorl-owner at lists.best.com" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Derek Bell", "address": "dbell at maths.tcd.ie" }, "date": "1997-02-21T20:07:45+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) cant, etc.", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "In message <199702211638.IAA16271 at lists1.best.com>, \"Joshua A. Solomon\" writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At first I was disappointed with LONG SUN because it seemed that\nthe writing wasn't anywhere near as tight as the writing in, say, \nNEW SUN (the original tetralogy). After lurking here I now realize\nthat these puzzles are what makes LONG SUN worth reading." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tYes, there is subtlety in _Long_Sun_, though probably of a\ndifferent kind to the _New_Sun_. I also loved the cant - Wolfe's a\nflash cull!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "A few miscellaneous items:\nPalatine (it's not hilly) is an affluent (moreso than\nBarrington, anyway) northwest Chicago suburb." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tWolfe's made a few puns on place names, especially Palatine -\nin _Pandora_by_Holly_Hollander_, the neighbourhood of Barton\n(Barrington) is on the far side of Palestine (Palatine) from Chicago\n- though, as Holly said in that book it isn't where you expect it. (I\nchecked a map of Illinois and saw there was a Palestine - in the south\nof the state!)\n\n\tSpeaking of that book, the ex-investigator Aladdin Blue has a\nwound that a lot of Wolfe's heros have - a leg wound. Silk of course\nhas a break in his leg, Severian says some call him \"Severian the\nlame\" - that seems to be all I can think of. Latro has a wound, but in\nthe head. Most of the characters I named in this paragraph had swords:\nSilk had the azoth, Severian had Terminus Est and Latro had Falcata.\n(Alladin Blue doesn't count, unless he had a swordstick!) Someone on\nrec.arts.sf-written once compared Silk and Severian to Moorcock's\nEternal Champion.\n\n\tDerek\n\n\nQuestions or problems to whorl-owner at lists.best.com" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jim Jordan", "address": "jbjordan at gnt.net" }, "date": "1997-03-10T17:59:25+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) cant, etc.", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 08:07 PM 2/21/97 +0000, you wrote:\n\nSpeaking of that book, the ex-investigator Aladdin Blue has a\nwound that a lot of Wolfe's heros have - a leg wound. Silk of course\nhas a break in his leg, Severian says some call him \"Severian the\nlame\" - that seems to be all I can think of. Latro has a wound, but in\nthe head. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tSee also \"The Hero as Werewolf.\"\n\tI asked Gene about the foot wound and possible connection to Genesis 3. He\nsaid he had not thought of it in connection with \"Werewolf,\" but I did not\nask about Severian (and this was before Silk). I think Silk's foot wound is\nclearly from Genesis 3; Severian's likely is. I don't think Latro's head\nwound identifies him with Satan/serpent, though, because it does not fit at\nall. Also, Gene had hoped to take Latro to Palestine and to the New World\nbefore it is all over. I'd love to see what Wolfe would do with Latro\nvisiting Jerusalem!\n\nJBJordan\n\n\nQuestions or problems to whorl-owner at lists.best.com" } ] } ] }