{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/1149", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 1149, "subject": "Inhumi (RTTW spoilers)", "messages": 5, "voices": 4, "first": "2001-02-13T13:35:26+00:00", "last": "2001-02-14T22:10:54+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adam Stephanides", "address": "adamsteph at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2001-02-13T13:41:44+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Inhumi (RTTW spoilers)", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "on 2/11/01 5:03 PM, Dave Lebling at dlebling at shore.net wrote:\n6) The Secret of the Inhumi. I feel a little let down here. We figured this\none out in book one. It doesn't live up to some of the remarks made about it\nby Horn himself. As we've pointed out, how would humanity in general knowing\nthe secret hurt the inhumi? Why would the inhumi care one way or another if\nthe secret came out? It's so terrible that Nettle has to leave Blue because\nSilk tells it to her. Why? What possible defense against the inhumi does\nknowing the secret enable?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I agree; it's both an anticlimax itself and inconsistent with some of Horn's\nearlier statements (I catalogued these in posts on July 25 and Aug. 2 of\nlast year). I was also disappointed with the lack of resolution of the\nhuman-inhumi conflict. I wasn't expecting Horn to lead the way to\nbrotherhood between humans and inhumi, but I thought he would find either\nsome kind of modus vivendi, or else some way to defeat the inhumi without\nviolating his oath (I was expecting this to be his \"historical role,\" in the\nsame way that bringing the New Sun was Severian's and facilitating the\nexodus was Silk's). Instead the whole human-inhumi isse is just left up in\nthe air (along with some other subplots).\n\nWhile I'm at it, another question about inhumi, deriving from IGJ but given\nadded point by the revelations of RTTW. At the end of Chapter 23, after\n\"Horn\" has finished explaining to Hide that the inhumi derived their\nintelligence from humans, as they had earlier from the Neighbors, Hide asks\nwhat happened to the inhumi once the Neighbors on Blue had been hunted to\nthe point where it was no longer worthwhile for the inhumi to fly from\nGreen. Horn says \"'I think you know,'\" and the chapter ends. What does he\nmean? I can think of two possibilities: One is that the inhumi enslaved\nthe Neighbors who had travelled to Green, as they do the humans; but since\nthe Neighbors can \"go away,\" I'm not sure how this would work. The other,\nwhich follows more logically from the discussion, is that the inhumi\nreverted back to beasts. But this would mean that, in introducing inhumi to\nthe Whorl, the Neighbors were actually creating the inhumi as a threat for\nhumans, by restoring their intelligence.\n\n--Adam\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alex David Groce", "address": "alex_groce at gs246.sp.cs.cmu.edu" }, "date": "2001-02-13T16:26:45+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Inhumi (RTTW spoilers)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Adam wrote:\n\n(much snipped)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "But this would mean that, in introducing inhumi to the Whorl, the\nNeighbors were actually creating the inhumi as a threat for humans,\nby restoring their intelligence." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Which is what I sort of believe. I'm also beginning to wonder if Silk\n(and the inhumi) thinking the secret is so important is a\nself-delusion and attempt to escape reality much like Silk's denial of\nwho he is.\n\nI have some suspicion that the personal-level \"contrived happy ending\"\n(which doesn't feel so contrived to me) of RTTW is meant to contrast\nsome grim implications for Blue & Green.\n\nBut I need to reread the whole thing." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "\"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.\" John 8:32\n--\nAlex David Groce (agroce+ at cs.cmu.edu)\nPh.D. Student, Carnegie Mellon University - Computer Science Department\n8112 Wean Hall (412)-268-3066\nhttp://www.cs.cmu.edu/~agroce\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "David DiGiacomo", "address": "dd at adobe.com" }, "date": "2001-02-13T13:35:26+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Inhumi (RTTW spoilers)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: adamsteph at earthlink.net (Adam Stephanides)\n\nWhile I'm at it, another question about inhumi, deriving from IGJ but given\nadded point by the revelations of RTTW. At the end of Chapter 23, after\n\"Horn\" has finished explaining to Hide that the inhumi derived their\nintelligence from humans, as they had earlier from the Neighbors, Hide asks\nwhat happened to the inhumi once the Neighbors on Blue had been hunted to\nthe point where it was no longer worthwhile for the inhumi to fly from\nGreen. Horn says \"'I think you know,'\" and the chapter ends. What does he\nmean? I can think of two possibilities: One is that the inhumi enslaved\nthe Neighbors who had travelled to Green, as they do the humans; but since\nthe Neighbors can \"go away,\" I'm not sure how this would work. The other,\nwhich follows more logically from the discussion, is that the inhumi\nreverted back to beasts." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The Neighbors of Green sent their slave inhumi to prey on the Neighbors of\nBlue. Once that source of blood was exhausted, the inhumi turned on the\nNeighbors of Green, ultimately destroying their civilization.\n\nIt would not be very satisfying if these very bad Neighbors could escape\nthe consequences of their evil through astral travel. It makes more sense\nto me that they were damned and died in the hell of Green. Like the\npeople of Viron, they seem to have neglected to bring their gods with\nthem, and suffered greatly as a result.\n\nOn the other hand, the Neighbors on Blue would have had the assistance of\ntheir gods in developing astral travel. Perhaps they \"went away\" in order\nto avoid having to kill all the inhumi." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "But this would mean that, in introducing inhumi to the Whorl, the\nNeighbors were actually creating the inhumi as a threat for humans, by\nrestoring their intelligence." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It seems odd that the inhumi would be able to retain the astral travel\nability of the Neighbors, but none of their intelligence, so I think that\nthey may not have devolved completely.\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Fernando Gouvea", "address": "fqgouvea at colby.edu" }, "date": "2001-02-14T11:06:41+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Inhumi (RTTW spoilers)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "About the secret of the inhumi: can we trust the text here? Since Silk/Horn\nis writing a \"public\" document, might he have put down a bowdlerized\nversion of the secret so as to make the point that it was revealed to\nNettle without thereby revealing it to us?\n\nFernando" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "======================================\nFernando Q. Gouvea \nDept. of Mathematics Editor, FOCUS and MAA Online\nColby College http://www.maa.org\nWaterville, ME 04901\nfqgouvea at colby.edu \n======================================\n\nHe's just a politician trying to save both his faces ...\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adam Stephanides", "address": "adamsteph at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2001-02-14T22:10:54+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Inhumi (RTTW spoilers)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "on 2/13/01 9:26 PM, Alex David Groce at Alex_Groce at gs246.sp.cs.cmu.edu\nwrote:\nI'm also beginning to wonder if Silk\n(and the inhumi) thinking the secret is so important is a\nself-delusion and attempt to escape reality much like Silk's denial of\nwho he is." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nThe suspicion had occurred to me that \"Horn\" was wrong in thinking that the\ninhumi thought that their secret could be used to destroy them (since I\ncouldn't find any place where an inhumu/a actually says so); and that they\nwere obeying him in Gaon for reasons of their own. But I rejected this\nhypothesis in the end, on the grounds that it's hard to see why \"Horn\" would\nthink that the inhumi thought the secret could be used to destroy them,\nunless Krait had told him so.\n\n--Adam\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] } ] }