{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/1151", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 1151, "subject": "Digest whorl.v012.n047", "messages": 5, "voices": 5, "first": "2001-02-13T18:03:29+00:00", "last": "2001-02-14T18:37:15+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "akt", "address": "akt at attglobal.net" }, "date": "2001-02-13T18:03:29+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Re: Digest whorl.v012.n047", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "From: Kieran Cleary > Subject: Re: (whorl) Pig,\nGodling" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Alga,\n\nCouldn't agree more re Pig. Did he like deciphering that dialect? He\ndid\nnae!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It fashed my een! And my kin are Scottish on my mother's side--which\nmade it all the more irritating! I know where your kin are from despite\nthat \"uk\" in your address...." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The encounter with the godling struck me as very similar to one of\nSev's\nmeetings with Juturna ('I would save you'), or with the hierodules,\nwhere\nthey kneel before him. In a sense, the godling is a debased version of\na\nhierodule, and recognises Silk as the 'holy one'." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, yes. But I do think the operative word is \"debased.\" I love\nJuturna and the hierodules and think they are used *extremely* well by\nthe author (especially in that last book that some on this list like to\nput down), but as I said in an earlier post, the godling, to me, seems\nlike a Hollywood special effect that serves no purpose other than cover\nart.\n\n-alga\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Kieran Cleary", "address": "kcleary at jb.man.ac.uk" }, "date": "2001-02-14T15:51:04+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Re: Digest whorl.v012.n047", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, 13 Feb 2001 akt at attglobal.net wrote:\nIt fashed my een! And my kin are Scottish on my mother's side--which\nmade it all the more irritating! I know where your kin are from despite\nthat \"uk\" in your address...." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes, I've moved across the water. Thankfully, the fliers being Crew, we\nwere spared any similar reproduction of an Irish dialect. I wonder,\nthough, how Wolfe did his homework for Pig's. (BBC viewers may be forgiven\nfor suspecting he's been watching re-runs of Rab C. Nesbitt).\n\nKieran\n\n\n\n\n\n \n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "BMeyer7", "address": "bmeyer7 at aol.com" }, "date": "2001-02-14T17:13:41+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Re: Digest whorl.v012.n047", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "In a message dated 01-02-13 17:10:53 EST, you write:\n\n<< Woo-hoo! I finally found the passage I was looking for in IGJ.\n \n What seems to have thrown many of us off in RTTW is that only Horn/Silk's\n arm injuries are mentioned when the farmer's wife attempts to clean him up,\n whereas this is how Horn describes the situation upon waking up after\n transfusion into Silk:\n \n \"[I] found myself upon my knees besides the open coffin of a middle-aged\n woman. My hands and arms and face and neck were all bleeding, and an old,\n worn knife covered with blood was by my hand. There was no one else in the\n poor little house in which I knelt, and almost nothing in it that was not\n torn or broken.\" (p. 127)\n \n \n \nForgive me if this has previously been discussed, but I'm reading all kinds \nof theories about how Silk and Hyacinth ended up this way--suicide, a bomb, \nan attack. Has anyone thought about the following? Silk's wife is dead, \nhe's beside the body covered in blood holding a bloody knife, nobody else is \nthere, there are signs of a struggle. He then suppresses all memory of the \nevents, including his own identity and wanders the world(s) trying to do good \ndeeds and talking about what a bad, unworthy person he is (and committing a \nrape along the way for no apparent reason). Did Silk kill Hyacinth!? I know \nit's painful to think of our beloved Silk, but it certainly seems to merit \ndiscussion as at least a strong possibility.\n \n \n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Spectacled Bear", "address": "spectacled.bear at pobox.com" }, "date": "2001-02-14T18:37:15+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Re: Digest whorl.v012.n047", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 12:13 2001-02-14 EST, BMeyer7 wrote:\nIn a message dated 01-02-13 17:10:53 EST, you write:\n\n<< Woo-hoo! I finally found the passage I was looking for in IGJ.\n\nWhat seems to have thrown many of us off in RTTW is that only Horn/Silk's\narm injuries are mentioned when the farmer's wife attempts to clean him up,\nwhereas this is how Horn describes the situation upon waking up after\ntransfusion into Silk:\n\n\"[I] found myself upon my knees besides the open coffin of a middle-aged\nwoman. My hands and arms and face and neck were all bleeding, and an old,\nworn knife covered with blood was by my hand. There was no one else in the\npoor little house in which I knelt, and almost nothing in it that was not\ntorn or broken.\" (p. 127)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Did Silk kill Hyacinth!? I know \nit's painful to think of our beloved Silk, but it certainly seems to merit \ndiscussion as at least a strong possibility." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "So he's been to the undertaker in the nearest town, bought the coffin\nand he or they have put her into it, and his hands and arms and face\nare still bleeding? I don't think so. He's still holding the knife!\n\nMy personal theory is that he wasn't trying to kill himself, either,\nbut did all the damage in a frenzy of grief. Rending his garments\nand all that sort of thing.\n\nSpectacled Bear." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alex David Groce", "address": "alex_groce at gs246.sp.cs.cmu.edu" }, "date": "2001-02-14T13:27:43+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Re: Digest whorl.v012.n047", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "BMeyer7 at aol.com wrote:\nForgive me if this has previously been discussed, but I'm reading\nall kinds of theories about how Silk and Hyacinth ended up this\nway--suicide, a bomb, an attack. Has anyone thought about the\nfollowing? Silk's wife is dead, he's beside the body covered in\nblood holding a bloody knife, nobody else is there, there are signs\nof a struggle. He then suppresses all memory of the events,\nincluding his own identity and wanders the world(s) trying to do\ngood deeds and talking about what a bad, unworthy person he is (and\ncommitting a rape along the way for no apparent reason). Did Silk\nkill Hyacinth!? I know it's painful to think of our beloved Silk,\nbut it certainly seems to merit discussion as at least a strong\npossibility." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well one thing that is important to keep in mind is that the events up\nto the transfer from Green at Horn's death are actions carried out by\n_Horn_, recollected by Silk/Horn. Silk doesn't rape anyone. This\ngoes the other way around, too--before he becomes Silk, Horn has\nbecome a better man himself, and though it is Silk who adopts Jahlee\n(an easier task, I think, in some ways) it is Horn who adopts Krait--\ndespite (or because of) the fact that Krait is bitter gall to him, and\na constant reminder of the worst event of his life*.\n\n* Worst, that is, until he kills Jahlee, but that is Silk and Horn\n both, I think." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "\"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.\" John 8:32\n--\nAlex David Groce (agroce+ at cs.cmu.edu)\nPh.D. Student, Carnegie Mellon University - Computer Science Department\n8112 Wean Hall (412)-268-3066\nhttp://www.cs.cmu.edu/~agroce\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] } ] }