{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/1170", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 1170, "subject": "RTTW spoilers, structure of TBOTSS", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "2001-02-15T11:50:23+00:00", "last": "2001-02-15T18:54:51+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi", "address": "mantis at sirius.com" }, "date": "2001-02-15T11:50:23+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) RTTW spoilers, structure of TBOTSS", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Adam wrote:\nNo doubt Horn could impersonate Silk's manner of speaking. But why would he\nwant to do so consistently? He doesn't know, or he denies, he's in Silk's\nbody. He is aware that everybody thinks he's Silk, and wants to convince\nthem he's not. It makes no sense that he would then go around acting like\nSilk. In any case, it's not just his manner of speaking, it's his\ncharacter. The Horn of the journey to Pajarocu is not inclined to dispense\nwisdom at the drop of a hat, as the \"Horn\" on the Whorl is.\n\nAs for the distinction between Silk and litSilk, it's true we don't know the\n\"real Silk,\" only litSilk. But we also know the litHorn of the trip to\nPajarocu. And the \"Horn\" of the Whorl resembles litSilk much more closely\nthan litHorn." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "If you had written \"litHorn of TBOTLS is the literary creation of the\nnarrator Horn; litHorn, of TBOTSS, is a literary creation of the narrator\n`N'\" then I'd know we were on the same page. As it is, I sense continuing\nTime Frame problems.\n\nHere, let me make a simplified diagram:\n\n1) Horn goes out on Blue.\n2) Horn goes out on Green.\n3) Horn/Silk goes out on the Whorl.\n4) The rajan of Gaon begins his book about steps 1, 2, and 3.\n5) OBW: the narrator on Blue and on step 1-Blue (same place, different\nperson).\n6) IGJ: the narrator on Blue, step 2-Green, on Green (ditto), and on Urth.\n7) RTTW: the narrator on Blue, step 3-Whorl, and on Urth.\n\nIf it helps to visualize that Escher drawing of the two hands drawing each\nother, then by all means do so!\n\nRemember: just as our sense of Silk in TBOTLS is created by the writing of\nHorn, so our sense of all the Horns in TBOTSS is created by the writing of\n\"N.\"\n\nIt is rather like the VRT/John Marsch problem.\n\n=mantis=\n\nSirius Fiction\nCatalog and errata sheet at http://www.sirius.com/~mantis/\n\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adam Stephanides", "address": "adamsteph at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2001-02-15T18:54:51+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) RTTW spoilers, structure of TBOTSS", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "on 2/15/01 1:50 PM, Michael Andre-Driussi at mantis at sirius.com wrote:\nAdam wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "As for the distinction between Silk and litSilk, it's true we don't know the\n\"real Silk,\" only litSilk. But we also know the litHorn of the trip to\nPajarocu. And the \"Horn\" of the Whorl resembles litSilk much more closely\nthan litHorn." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "If you had written \"litHorn of TBOTLS is the literary creation of the\nnarrator Horn; litHorn, of TBOTSS, is a literary creation of the narrator\n`N'\" then I'd know we were on the same page. As it is, I sense continuing\nTime Frame problems." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "True; but this is irrelevant to the point I was trying to make, which is\nthat the representation of the \"Horn\" of the Whorl resembles any\nrepresentation of Silk, or of the Silkified \"Horn\" of Gaon and after, more\nclosely than it resembles any representation of Horn before he was put into\nSilk's body. Actually, my memory of TBOTLS isn't that great, so I'm really\ngoing by the representations of Horn and the Silkified \"Horn\" in TBOTSS." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Remember: just as our sense of Silk in TBOTLS is created by the writing of\nHorn, so our sense of all the Horns in TBOTSS is created by the writing of\n\"N.\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It's not quite the same, because there are three different narrators who\nportray \"Horn\" in TBOTSS: the Rajan, the group narration by the editors, and\nHoof (I'm not counting Daisy, since Horn is gone by then). But I'm not\naware of any differences between their portrayals of the \"Horn\" who's in\nSilk's body. This actually could support your basic theory, if not your\ndetails: you could argue that since the editors only saw Horn-in-Silk after\nhe'd been reinfused with Silk, they projected that personality onto the\nHorn-in-Silk of the Whorl. But I would still disagree, mainly because there\nare other reasons (which I've stated) for believing that Silk was present in\nthe \"Horn\" of the Whorl.\n\n--Adam\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] } ] }