Subject: (whorl) Finally finished RTW <SPOILERS>

From: Endymion9 <endymion9 at mindspring.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 20:33:36 +0000

"Bob Musser" <rmusser at mindspring.com> wrote:

>I think the carnage which follows Silk around is one of the
>frightening aspects of his goodness.  He doesn't instigate it; it
>flows from the responses of those who fear him.  I'm starting to re-
>read the series and haven't revisited Green as yet, so I'm not sure if
>the same theory can be applied to Horn's actions there.

Reminded me of the crusades and the Spanish Inquisition.  Many leaders have
thought they were warring on others "in the name of God."  Also, reminds me
of a skit on the old tv show "Laugh-In" where it showed an American,
Englishman, Frenchman, German, Italian, and Japanese soldier each in his
foxhole.  Each said "And we will prevail because God is on our side." or
something similar.  I think the punchline was each was struck by lightening
but I can't clearly remember <grin>.

Ok.  I'm always better at asking questions than answering them in this group
so I'll begin my list now.

1.  Why did Nettle chose to return to the Whorl?  Especially since if I
understood the ending, Horn's personality disappeared or was totally
absorbed into Silk's.  His memories remained, I'm sure but his personality
died.  Or course I know Nettle had a love for Silk like Horn did, so was
this the reason she returned with him?

As I continue to read other's posts (catching up) I agree with mantis
suggestion that it wa not safe for Nettle to say on Blue as she knows the
inhuma secret.

2. Revelations.  Call me dense but I never understood that Maytera Mint was
not a chem.  I thought every Maytera was a chem.  So it was just coincidence
that Maytera Rose and Maytera Marble were?  Also, thinking of Mint made me
realize that Wolfe reused a similar pattern in the *good* men of the Whorl.
Silk
Horn
Bison
Hound
Auk
They all loved their women deeply and would sacrifice their ideals and
principles for those women.

3.  Why did the corn farmer attack Horn, even after he said he was leaving?
Why give him the corn just to kill him?  When Wolfe writes passages like
these I feel so dense, like I'm the only one clueless as to what is going on
<grin>.

4.  Considering why Silk returned to the Whorl and decided to leave
Blue/Green after the godling received a report of Blue/Green's condition
from Horn.  Someone earlier asked if the colonists were going to suceed in
colonizing Blue/Green or would the inhuma wipe them out?  It seems to me
that Silk has decided to condemn the Blue/Green colonists to death.  It's
not clear if the Whorl had the resources to help them win anyway with all
the embreyos being misused before they got to Blue/Green.  If this is so,
why wouldn't Silk/Horn take his sons with him back to the Whorl also?

5.  I saw no evidence that the Whorl had used resources from Blue/Green
returning landers to resupply the ship.  The ship seemed in bad shape in
Exile before we saw it even further run down in RTW.  How do the gods expect
their worshippers to survive for very long if they are just travelling
without a specific destination as was suggested in another post?

6.  Just saw a mention of Fava.  Was Fava's spirit residing in Mora or was
it merely Mora creating a memory of Fava like Hoof did of Hide (or vice
versa if I'm remembering it backwards).

7.  There has been mention of why Silk would be interested in Seawrack.  As
was discussed in some of the "Lily" posts earlier I still wonder if it was
Kypris more than Hyacinth that Silk was "in love" with.  Someone mentioned
Seawrack possibly containing a god.  Kypris?  Is this Silk continuing his
love affair with Kypris?

8.  I'm still confused about the Neighbors.  Where are they now?  Why are
the inhuma not a threat to them now?  Why did they want a promise that they
could come and go on Blue?  They seem to have introduced inhuma to the
Whorl, possibly in a preemptive attack on invaders?

Just read this
dd at adobe.com (David DiGiacomo) wrote:
>The Neighbors of Green sent their slave inhumi to prey on the Neighbors of
>Blue.  Once that source of blood was exhausted, the inhumi turned on the
>Neighbors of Green, ultimately destroying their civilization.
>
>It would not be very satisfying if these very bad Neighbors could escape
>the consequences of their evil through astral travel.  It makes more sense
>to me that they were damned and died in the hell of Green.  Like the
>people of Viron, they seem to have neglected to bring their gods with
>them, and suffered greatly as a result.
>
>On the other hand, the Neighbors on Blue would have had the assistance of
>their gods in developing astral travel.  Perhaps they "went away" in order
>to avoid having to kill all the inhumi.

Where did they "go away"?

9.  It seems to be the Silk personality that hates and wants to destroy
inhumi vs. Horn's trying to live in peace with them.  Why does Silk hate the
inhumi?  Is this from Pas's knowledge of them?

Whew <wiping brow) Not through catching up but I'll send this now and read
the rest of the posts I've missed and probably ask more questions later. :)

Dennis/Endy
http://home.mindspring.com/~endymion9/index.htm

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---

From: William Ansley <wansley at warwick.net>
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 01:18:13 +0000

I'm going to comment on one of your questions and try to answer 
another. I am not sure if some of the others can be answered in any 
definite way; it will be interesting to see what other responses you 
get.

>realize that Wolfe reused a similar pattern in the *good* men of the Whorl.

I won't call you dense, but you weren't paying as much attention as 
you might have been. Maytera Marble was the only sybil of the three 
who was a chem, and she may have been the only chem sybil in all of 
Viron.

In the city of Viron, beings with the names of minerals or 
mineral-derived products are chems. Those with the names of plants or 
plant-derived products are bio women and those with the names of 
animals or animal-derived products are bio men. (There is no naming 
distinction between male and female chems, apparently. I'd call this 
Bio chauvinism on the part of Pas--or whoever came up with the naming 
conventions.) Maytera Rose was very old and sick and was only kept 
alive by means of the many prosthetic parts that had been surgically 
implanted in her body. When even these prostheses could no longer 
keep Rose alive, Maytera Marble claimed some of them as spare parts. 
In Wolfe's universe, robot and human parts are pretty much 
interchangeable. That robot parts could be used as prosthetic parts 
for humans and vice-versa is less silly than the idea that a robot 
(Jonas, in TNotNS) could be repaired with human flesh, but it still 
puts something of a strain on the reader's credulity (mine, at least).

>these I feel so dense, like I'm the only one clueless as to what is going on

The farmer's motivation certainly isn't crystal clear to me either, 
but my opinion is that he wouldn't have attacked Horn if Horn had 
just left without confronting him when the farmer first told Horn to 
leave.

To put it bluntly, Horn pissed the farmer off. The farmer seems to 
have been a bully; perhaps he thought Horn would run or beg for 
mercy. But instead Horn showed the farmer that he was not afraid of 
him. Horn even told the farmer that he could beat him with a rotten 
stick and then chastised him for threatening a man who was (the 
farmer thought, at least) old and weak. The farmer was probably 
frightened when he saw Horn was not afraid of him and ashamed when 
Horn chastised him. Both these emotions tend to lead to anger and the 
farmer struck out at Horn in anger when he turned his back on him to 
leave. His anger won out over his fear when he could no longer see 
Horn's (Silk's) face, perhaps.

Another possibility that does not exclude the one above is that the 
farmer recognized that this person who said his name was Horn looked 
just like Silk or at least had suspicions along those lines. He may 
have wondered what Silk was up too and whether he was insane. When 
the farmer threatened Horn and Horn responded without the fear the 
farmer expected, this may have given the farmer more reason to think 
something was wrong with Horn's mind.

It is understandable that the farmer might want to drive off an 
unpredictable looney and might attack one that seemed dangerous.

That's my two cents, anyway.

William Ansley

---

From: Endymion9 <endymion9 at mindspring.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 09:05:58 +0000

William.  Thanks for clearing up the Rose, Marble, Mint confusion for me.
When I first was reading NotLS I was struggling to figure out what maytera
vs. sybil vs. all sorts of strange words (to me) meant and I haven't had the
opportunity to reread yet.  So even though years later here I've learned a
little about the naming conventions just wasn't enough to clear up that
initial confusion.  But your explanation was very clear!

Since sleeping on it I've come up with another question for the group.

I believe Horn/Silk invited Gryfalcon to give his family status in New Viron
and to protect against what he though was going to be a small force of
inhumi, but did he secretly want to help Capsicum get revenge on Gryfalcon?

Dennis/Endy