# Finally finished RTW *The Whorl list — 3 messages, 2 voices, 16 Feb 2001* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### Endymion9 *16 Feb 2001, 20:33* > "Bob Musser" wrote: > I think the carnage which follows Silk around is one of the > frightening aspects of his goodness. He doesn't instigate it; it > flows from the responses of those who fear him. I'm starting to re- > read the series and haven't revisited Green as yet, so I'm not sure if > the same theory can be applied to Horn's actions there. Reminded me of the crusades and the Spanish Inquisition. Many leaders have thought they were warring on others "in the name of God." Also, reminds me of a skit on the old tv show "Laugh-In" where it showed an American, Englishman, Frenchman, German, Italian, and Japanese soldier each in his foxhole. Each said "And we will prevail because God is on our side." or something similar. I think the punchline was each was struck by lightening but I can't clearly remember . Ok. I'm always better at asking questions than answering them in this group so I'll begin my list now. 1. Why did Nettle chose to return to the Whorl? Especially since if I understood the ending, Horn's personality disappeared or was totally absorbed into Silk's. His memories remained, I'm sure but his personality died. Or course I know Nettle had a love for Silk like Horn did, so was this the reason she returned with him? As I continue to read other's posts (catching up) I agree with mantis suggestion that it wa not safe for Nettle to say on Blue as she knows the inhuma secret. 2. Revelations. Call me dense but I never understood that Maytera Mint was not a chem. I thought every Maytera was a chem. So it was just coincidence that Maytera Rose and Maytera Marble were? Also, thinking of Mint made me realize that Wolfe reused a similar pattern in the *good* men of the Whorl. Silk Horn Bison Hound Auk They all loved their women deeply and would sacrifice their ideals and principles for those women. 3. Why did the corn farmer attack Horn, even after he said he was leaving? Why give him the corn just to kill him? When Wolfe writes passages like these I feel so dense, like I'm the only one clueless as to what is going on . 4. Considering why Silk returned to the Whorl and decided to leave Blue/Green after the godling received a report of Blue/Green's condition from Horn. Someone earlier asked if the colonists were going to suceed in colonizing Blue/Green or would the inhuma wipe them out? It seems to me that Silk has decided to condemn the Blue/Green colonists to death. It's not clear if the Whorl had the resources to help them win anyway with all the embreyos being misused before they got to Blue/Green. If this is so, why wouldn't Silk/Horn take his sons with him back to the Whorl also? 5. I saw no evidence that the Whorl had used resources from Blue/Green returning landers to resupply the ship. The ship seemed in bad shape in Exile before we saw it even further run down in RTW. How do the gods expect their worshippers to survive for very long if they are just travelling without a specific destination as was suggested in another post? 6. Just saw a mention of Fava. Was Fava's spirit residing in Mora or was it merely Mora creating a memory of Fava like Hoof did of Hide (or vice versa if I'm remembering it backwards). 7. There has been mention of why Silk would be interested in Seawrack. As was discussed in some of the "Lily" posts earlier I still wonder if it was Kypris more than Hyacinth that Silk was "in love" with. Someone mentioned Seawrack possibly containing a god. Kypris? Is this Silk continuing his love affair with Kypris? 8. I'm still confused about the Neighbors. Where are they now? Why are the inhuma not a threat to them now? Why did they want a promise that they could come and go on Blue? They seem to have introduced inhuma to the Whorl, possibly in a preemptive attack on invaders? Just read this > dd at adobe.com (David DiGiacomo) wrote: > The Neighbors of Green sent their slave inhumi to prey on the Neighbors of > Blue. Once that source of blood was exhausted, the inhumi turned on the > Neighbors of Green, ultimately destroying their civilization. > > It would not be very satisfying if these very bad Neighbors could escape > the consequences of their evil through astral travel. It makes more sense > to me that they were damned and died in the hell of Green. Like the > people of Viron, they seem to have neglected to bring their gods with > them, and suffered greatly as a result. > > On the other hand, the Neighbors on Blue would have had the assistance of > their gods in developing astral travel. Perhaps they "went away" in order > to avoid having to kill all the inhumi. Where did they "go away"? 9. It seems to be the Silk personality that hates and wants to destroy inhumi vs. Horn's trying to live in peace with them. Why does Silk hate the inhumi? Is this from Pas's knowledge of them? Whew At 8:33 PM -0600 2/16/01, Endymion9 wrote: > 2. Revelations. Call me dense but I never understood that Maytera Mint was > not a chem. I thought every Maytera was a chem. So it was just coincidence > that Maytera Rose and Maytera Marble were? Also, thinking of Mint made me > realize that Wolfe reused a similar pattern in the *good* men of the Whorl. I won't call you dense, but you weren't paying as much attention as you might have been. Maytera Marble was the only sybil of the three who was a chem, and she may have been the only chem sybil in all of Viron. In the city of Viron, beings with the names of minerals or mineral-derived products are chems. Those with the names of plants or plant-derived products are bio women and those with the names of animals or animal-derived products are bio men. (There is no naming distinction between male and female chems, apparently. I'd call this Bio chauvinism on the part of Pas--or whoever came up with the naming conventions.) Maytera Rose was very old and sick and was only kept alive by means of the many prosthetic parts that had been surgically implanted in her body. When even these prostheses could no longer keep Rose alive, Maytera Marble claimed some of them as spare parts. In Wolfe's universe, robot and human parts are pretty much interchangeable. That robot parts could be used as prosthetic parts for humans and vice-versa is less silly than the idea that a robot (Jonas, in TNotNS) could be repaired with human flesh, but it still puts something of a strain on the reader's credulity (mine, at least). > 3. Why did the corn farmer attack Horn, even after he said he was leaving? > Why give him the corn just to kill him? When Wolfe writes passages like > these I feel so dense, like I'm the only one clueless as to what is going on > . The farmer's motivation certainly isn't crystal clear to me either, but my opinion is that he wouldn't have attacked Horn if Horn had just left without confronting him when the farmer first told Horn to leave. To put it bluntly, Horn pissed the farmer off. The farmer seems to have been a bully; perhaps he thought Horn would run or beg for mercy. But instead Horn showed the farmer that he was not afraid of him. Horn even told the farmer that he could beat him with a rotten stick and then chastised him for threatening a man who was (the farmer thought, at least) old and weak. The farmer was probably frightened when he saw Horn was not afraid of him and ashamed when Horn chastised him. Both these emotions tend to lead to anger and the farmer struck out at Horn in anger when he turned his back on him to leave. His anger won out over his fear when he could no longer see Horn's (Silk's) face, perhaps. Another possibility that does not exclude the one above is that the farmer recognized that this person who said his name was Horn looked just like Silk or at least had suspicions along those lines. He may have wondered what Silk was up too and whether he was insane. When the farmer threatened Horn and Horn responded without the fear the farmer expected, this may have given the farmer more reason to think something was wrong with Horn's mind. It is understandable that the farmer might want to drive off an unpredictable looney and might attack one that seemed dangerous. That's my two cents, anyway. William Ansley *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun. --- ### Endymion9 *17 Feb 2001, 09:05 · follows William Ansley* William. Thanks for clearing up the Rose, Marble, Mint confusion for me. When I first was reading NotLS I was struggling to figure out what maytera vs. sybil vs. all sorts of strange words (to me) meant and I haven't had the opportunity to reread yet. So even though years later here I've learned a little about the naming conventions just wasn't enough to clear up that initial confusion. But your explanation was very clear! Since sleeping on it I've come up with another question for the group. I believe Horn/Silk invited Gryfalcon to give his family status in New Viron and to protect against what he though was going to be a small force of inhumi, but did he secretly want to help Capsicum get revenge on Gryfalcon? Dennis/Endy http://home.mindspring.com/~endymion9/index.htm *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun. ---