{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/1179",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "whorl",
  "thread": {
    "id": 1179,
    "subject": "socrates",
    "messages": 1,
    "voices": 1,
    "first": "2001-02-17T15:25:09+00:00",
    "last": "2001-02-17T15:25:09+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<whorl-v0012-0266@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Sheila Herndon",
        "address": "skherndon at yahoo.com"
      },
      "date": "2001-02-17T15:25:09+00:00",
      "subject": "(whorl) socrates",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I am still catching up on all the posts, but having\nquestions at the same time, so I hope I don't cross\nwires and ask redudant things.\n\nOh, and I feel I have to confess - I am not a \nChristian. It is complicated to describe my attitude\nbut I will quote James Morrow, a quote from an\ninterview here, http://www.sfsite.com/02a/jm97.htm\n\n  [...]\n  As the British philosopher Galen Strawson recently\n  observed, God loves the atheists best, because \n  they're the ones who take him the most seriously.\n  [...]\n  \"God\" is so easily confused with the answers whose\n  place he's holding.\n\nI do not find God beleivable, but it so happens, \nfind divine love beleivable. Anyway, I do not wish to\nbelabor this point - beyond the scope of the book.\n\nI hope I have not committed a faux-paus. It is often\ntreacherous to mention one's beleifs online.\n\nHowever, since the subject of the book is clearly\nreligious, I though maybe I would risk it?\n\nAnyway, one thing that strikes a cord with me about\nthe godling (his huge stature aside - hmm, maybe he\nis a talus, yes that helps. I found myself very\nconfused as to why Wolfe had to make the Godling so\nhuge? Why does it matter how huge he is? weird.)\nand the conversation with the godling -\n\nand I don't really get all of this so bear with me -\n\nbut I like how Horn makes no promise to the godling,\neven in a sly way. He nods. And he is resolved within\nhimself to do what he judges to be right. Based on\nwhat he thinks. Not on what the godling says.\n\nBut what is even more interesting, because that is\nan easy point to make I think, might != right, is\nthat when he reaches Viron, and has seen many things,\nhe changes his mind to agree with the Godling. This\nmeans, hey you silly human, just because someone is\npowerful, does not mean they are wrong.\n\nOn, and this also reminds me, perhaps inappropriately\nso, perhaps I am making a weak link here - of the\ndialog of Socrates and Euthrypro - I may have spelled\nhis name wrong - it has been a very long time since I\nread it.\n\nThe thing I remember from that was the question - \nare things good becuase God says they are, or does\nGod say they are good because they are?\n\nVery interesting question. In greek, it is not\nexactly good - it is perhaps closer to \"pious\"? \nI do not remember exactly.\n\nAnyway, I love that dialogue.\n\nI am not sure which way Wolfe would answer, but based\non the godling thing - I think he would say that\nthe human is to seek good, not out of coercion, not\nout of an idea of obediance, or of reward, or of\npunishment, but because it is good and that is what\na good human wants.\n\nAnd the human may want this, and then may mistakenly\nthink it is at odds with the divine, yet, once the\nhuman travels to Viron and understand things more,\nthen the human will find himself suddenly agreeing\nwith God that things which are good, are good, and\nnot just because God told him so. or because God is\nfrightening and powerful.\n\nAnyway, I was just wondering if anyone else would\nagree or disagree with me on that? Maybe I am \nreading too much of the wrong stuff into it.\n\nmimosa"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}