Subject: (whorl) Horn ain't dead

From: akt <akt at attglobal.net>
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 00:27:01 +0000

> From: Jim Jordan <jbjordan at gnt.net>

> >Though I should add an amusing personal note. Wolfe has read and
deeply
> >appreciates John Clute's
> >SF Weekly Review of RTTW.
>
> Well, that being the case, I must bow and admit that Horn is dead and
Silk
> lives. I was never certain, but I thought a case should be made for
the
> Horn Lives standpoint. I'll have to rethink a few categories...

I've been staying out of most of this because (a) I have other things on
my mind and (b) I don't have a copy of RTW handy to refer to. Though I
am on record as one of the disappointed ones. But I can never resist
Ratty:

It seems more and more repetitive to say so, but you just can't ignore
the computer model that GW has been enamoured with from the start of LS.
Yes, he has used dual (multiple) personalities before, as was clear with
Sev, but the whole idea of uploading and downloading very palpably took
his fancy at the point where the PC entered his life. So I will argue
for the Horn Lives viewpoint--quite vehemently, actually. You could say
that Horn's spirit was a very successful virus taking over the Silk
functional operating system (body). Or some other metaphor. But it seems
to me completely clear that whoever this person thinks he is at the end
of the book, Horn is *still there*. He will not, cannot, be erased from
the system completely. It might be like Sev being able to access Thecla
or the Autarch or whomever. Or not. Somewhere in LS there is an
explanation of how, after a god has possessed someone, the god is never
completely erased, and this is similar.

It seems to me that, if GW should want to write another book about these
people (my guess is not, because he seems so tired of them at this
point--but you never know). it will be important to the plot to have the
dual Silk/Horn interface. Like having Windows and Linux on the same
machine.

-alga

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---

From: Adam Stephanides <adamsteph at earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 20:59:23 +0000

>the computer model that GW has been enamoured with from the start of LS.
[snip]
>So I will argue
>the system completely.

It's not clear to me why you regard the computer model as conclusive
evidence that Horn lives.  It's quite possible to completely purge an
invading virus (or operating system, or whatever) from a computer it's
infected.

> It might be like Sev being able to access Thecla

While it's not a direct refutation of your point, I don't believe that the
Silk-Horn situation is equivalent to possession or to the Severian-Thecla
situation (or to the Windows-Linux metaphor you used later).  There's no
evidence that two separate personalities coexist in Silk's body which can
manifest themselves independently.  Rather, what seems to be going on is
that Silk and Horn's personalities have merged into the single entity I, and
others, have been calling Silkhorn.

As to your main point, I think we should draw a distinction between memory
and spirit (simplifying Dan'l's excellent post).  I am quite willing to
accept that Silk retains Horn's memories, although I there's no direct
evidence for this.   But as for spirit, while I am far from having a clear
understanding of what's going on, I am going to take the appearance of
Silkhorn's astral body as a definitive indicator, unless somebody has a
better alternative.  And, going by that, Horn's spirit does depart at some
point before the astral trip to "bring Scylla home."

--Adam