{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/1229", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 1229, "subject": "Pig & Nettle & Seawrack & Horn", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "2001-02-26T08:13:40+00:00", "last": "2001-02-26T18:43:33+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Patrick O'Leary", "address": "poleary at cecom.com" }, "date": "2001-02-26T09:58:23+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Re: Pig & Nettle & Seawrack & Horn", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Pig as Godling:\n\nYes, the reference to \"ears\" and \"claws\" is probably the best evidence I've seen.\nGood fishing! Yet, for me, it still doesn't ring true. I guess I'd believe it if\nI saw Pig fulfilling the function of a godling--for aren't they just clarions\nfor the gods of mainframe? \"Leave the Whorl!\" or \"Stay on The whorl!\"\nIt's not a question of size. Yes, the text says they come in extra large and large\nsizes.\nBut compare the character/behavior of the one definitive godling that we know\nand the character of Pig--and I see a chasm unbridgeable by ears or size.\nCan anyone help me with this?\n\nSeawrack's and Nettle's motivation:\n\nPerhaps it *is* somewhat mysterious why Nettle and Seawrack\nchoose to return to the whorl with Silk/Horn. But is it really so difficult to\nimagine\nthat they would want to remain as close as possible to whatever remnant of their\nlover\nthey could cling to? And, really, who can resist Silk? Robert Borski's summary\nof Seawrack's story really misses the point: Seawrack and Horn were in love.\nAs were Nettle and Horn. Still, the way I read the ending is: Silk will become\nSeawrack's mate. Remember the way Horn is haunted by the mermaid's song?\nAnd how he sometimes substitutes/misnames \"Hyacinth\" for \"Seawrack.\"\n\nHorn Lives:\n\nOk, Horn does indeed exist somehow in Silk at the end. Alga's comment on\nWolfe's PC model of possession is very sound, I think. But I love the irony:\nWe think we've been reading a book written by Horn denying he is Silk.\nAnd, really, it is a book written by Silk denying he is Silk.\n\nThe Trial in Dorp:\n\nVery few comments about this episode. Any thoughts?\n\nPatrick O'Leary\n\n\n\n\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "ddanehy at siebel.com" }, "date": "2001-02-26T08:13:40+00:00", "subject": "RE: (whorl) Re: Pig & Nettle & Seawrack & Horn", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Patrick O'Leary wrote:\nThe Trial in Dorp:\n\nVery few comments about this episode. Any thoughts?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Only that it's yet another example of Mr Wolfe's occasionally\nannoying, clever-boots technique of narrating all around an\nevent, dropping bits of it here and there, but never actually\nnarrating it. \n\nIf you stop to think about it, how many of the critical \nevents of tBotSS take place offstage? The writerly, critical\naspect of my personality wants to say \"too damn many.\" \n\nI think this is one of the reasons I found RttW disappointing,\ngood though it is: I mentioned wanting the moon, sun, and all\nthe stars? Well, I think that they were there, but Wolfe didn't\nbother to show them to us.\n\nAaaargh.\n\nAnd it isn't laziness, and it isn't incompetent writing --\nhe certainly knows how to narrate a dramatic scene; he's \nclearly doing it on purpose. But to what purpose?\n\n--Dan'l\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Endymion9", "address": "endymion9 at mindspring.com" }, "date": "2001-02-26T18:43:33+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Re: Pig & Nettle & Seawrack & Horn", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Seawrack and Horn were in love. As were Nettle and Horn." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't see this. I see Horn lustful and enamored towards Seawrack. The\nonly thing I know about Seawrack from the text is that\n1. See was fulfilling a mission for the Mother\n2. See would prefer to stay with Horn rather than return to the Mother\n3. See acted fond of Horn and Babbie\n\nI saw no evidence that she loved Horn. But maybe I missed something. I'll\nlook for it when I get around to rereading.\n\n\nDennis/Endy\nhttp://home.mindspring.com/~endymion9/index.htm\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] } ] }