{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/1237",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "whorl",
  "thread": {
    "id": 1237,
    "subject": "Trinitarian Resonances",
    "messages": 1,
    "voices": 1,
    "first": "2001-02-27T09:20:28+00:00",
    "last": "2001-02-27T09:20:28+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<whorl-v0012-0377@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "James Jordan",
        "address": "jbjordan4 at home.com"
      },
      "date": "2001-02-27T09:20:28+00:00",
      "subject": "(whorl) Trinitarian Resonances",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Or: ... Horn-the-Son ascends into Hell (green) and dies there,\nthen reunites with Silk-the-Father."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Good point. \"He descended into hell. On the third day He arose from the \ndead, and ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of the Father.\" \nHorn lives, as and at the \"right hand\" of Father Silk."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "The point being that I think all these resonances are\nclearly there, but no one is a 'ruling metaphor.'"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Humanity is the \"image of God,\" so imaging the Trinity is no surprise in Wolfe.\n\nIn the Long Sun, the \"trinity\" is Pas, Silk, and Kypris. The feminine is \nassociated with the Holy Spirit, who according to Augustine is Love, and \nWolfe intends Kypris to be Love, and thus to stand for the Spirit in this \nregard.\n\nIn the Short Sun, the \"trinity\" is Silk (\"Father\"), Horn, and Seawrack, if \nthe suggestion that Seawrack is Kypris holds up. BTW, I think this analogy \nadds a bit of weight to the Seawrack-Kypris hypothesis.\n\nBorski: Since you've thought the most about this: I'll bet Scylla is also a \nkind of Spirit-analogy. Note her involvement with Oreb, the Mother, and \nSeawrack. But she's immature, just entering puberty, testy with menarch, \nthinking of sex as gross, etc. Kypris, thus, is the better manifestation of \nthe Spirit-motif, the manifestation that endures.\n\nWhich brings me to the suggestion that maybe another \"trinity\" is Pas, \nTartaros, and Scylla. The Tartaros-Auk section of SS might be mined for \nideas along these lines. (Auk is a kind of son for Silk.)\n\nIt should be noted that the Silky \"trinitarian\" manifestations only appear \nat the end of the two meta-novels. The characters \"grow\" into conformity to \nthe image of God in such triple ways.\n\nAs long as I'm speculating: more for Borski. Passilk is the son, and he \npossesses Pig. I notice that in Acts 10-11, a sign of the New Creation is \nthat Peter is told to eat unclean meat, pork included, of course. Pig is a \n\"new son.\" Godling? Probably, especially in light of this possible analogy. \nPossibly, then, the Big Godling, who is so kind to Horn, is another \nadumbration of the Spirit, communicating the new information from Pas and \nPassilk. On the other hand, since Oreb is flying above Horn at this point \n(as the cover illustrates), perhaps the Big Godling is a manifestation of \nPas, with Silkhorn the son, and Oreb-Scylla the spirit.\n\n(Note to Borski: Did you make the point that Babbie is \"Baby,\" perhaps a \nbaby Neighbor? And, I reiterate my earlier question: How can Pig think he \nkilled Silk when he sees Silk right in front of him? I should think it was \na different augur he killed.)\n\nAs to Quaternity: No. Quadrifons is a cherub: a \"lower\" manifestation of \nthe Outsider, below the \"higher\" order of the Trinity.\n\nI'm convinced that it is a mistake to think Wolfe is operating with \n\"heretical\" or \"gnostic\" (e.g., Gospel of Thomas, Ascension of Moses) \nmaterials. Look for the roots of his theology in the canonical Bible, \nAugustine, Thomas Aquinas, and C. S. Lewis -- in the mainstream of the \nCatholic tradition.\n\nPatera Nutria\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun."
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}