{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/1273", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 1273, "subject": "Mother Godspeak (Redux)", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "2001-03-15T12:49:40+00:00", "last": "2001-03-16T17:00:15+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Robert Borski", "address": "rborski at charter.net" }, "date": "2001-03-15T12:49:40+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Mother Godspeak (Redux)", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Adam S. again, asking:\n\n\n\nI'll concede you the two points about Horn not needing to understand\nNeighbor to summon the Mother, but am uncertain about the question you ask.\nHorn has asked the Greater Scylla of Urth how to find his mermaid sweetie\nSeawrack; why he believes Scylla knows this is beyond me (is she running an\nintergalactic missing persons retrieval service on the side? Are we to\nbelieve she's currently in contact with the Mother?), but apparently she\ndoes, for she teaches Horn how to communicate with her sister--the\nMother--who subsequently tells Seawrack she must go with PassilkHorn on part\nII of the Whorl's Great Journey. But again, what is the Mother doing on\nBlue? Scylla of Urth at least is trying to take over a world; as Typhon at\none time puts it, \"There are powers in the sea now that would rule.\" But\nbefore the colonists reach Blue, the only \"people\" hanging around are a few\nstubborn Neighbors and some inhumi. I'm therefore at a loss to figure out\nthe Mother's mission d'être (or why she'd still be communicating with\nGreater Scylla, if that's your argument); it must be mighty important,\nhowever, if, as you suggest, Cilinia has somehow convinced her father that\nBlue must be their first target of choice. What, in other words, does\nCilinia gain by coming all this way to rendezvous with the Mother? What,\nprecisely, is in it for her? And why, if Cilinia has schemed so diligently\nto be with Greater Scylla's \"sister,\" does she want to go back to her tomb\non Urth and take the long dirt nap?\n\nSomewhat related question to Adam, Blattid, or Alex, whoever cares to\nanswer: why, in your opinion, does the Mother (rather a benign figure\ncompared to Greater Scylla) give Seawrack to Horn? And how does she acquire\nthe mermaid--especially, if, as I've argued, she's really Screadhbhuidhe, a\nspecial talent?\n\nPS. Thank to George Terry for sourcing the ignoramus/agnostic quote.\n\nRobert Borski\n\n\n\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adam Stephanides", "address": "adamsteph at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2001-03-16T17:00:15+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Mother Godspeak (Redux)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "on 3/15/01 12:49 PM, Robert Borski at rborski at charter.net wrote:\nHorn has asked the Greater Scylla of Urth how to find his mermaid sweetie\nSeawrack; why he believes Scylla knows this is beyond me" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Presumably it was Scylla-in-Oreb who suggested it, as bait to get Horn to\ntake her to Urth." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "(is she running an\nintergalactic missing persons retrieval service on the side? Are we to\nbelieve she's currently in contact with the Mother?)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Not necessarily; she could give Horn some sort of invocation which could\ncall up the Mother somehow. But it's not impossible, either. If Horn can\nastrally travel the distance between Urth and Blue, then Scylla and the\nMother could be in telepathic contact." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "But again, what is the Mother doing on\nBlue? Scylla of Urth at least is trying to take over a world; as Typhon at\none time puts it, \"There are powers in the sea now that would rule.\" But\nbefore the colonists reach Blue, the only \"people\" hanging around are a few\nstubborn Neighbors and some inhumi." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "We don't know how long the Mother has been on Blue; she may well have\narrived before the Neighbors on Blue were hunted to near-extinction. As to\nwhy she stayed: while she arrived from space, it doesn't necessarily follow\nthat she can leave the planet on her own. Or maybe she was content to rule\nover the her underwater retinue and be a god to the remaining Neighbors;\njust because her sister has world-conquering ambitions doesn't mean she\ndoes." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I'm therefore at a loss to figure out\nthe Mother's mission d'être (or why she'd still be communicating with\nGreater Scylla, if that's your argument); it must be mighty important,\nhowever, if, as you suggest, Cilinia has somehow convinced her father that\nBlue must be their first target of choice. What, in other words, does\nCilinia gain by coming all this way to rendezvous with the Mother? What,\nprecisely, is in it for her?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't know. My point was simply that, even without Typhon being a\nNeighbor, there was already an indirect connection between Typhon and Blue\nthrough Cilinia, so Typhon picking as destination the world where Scylla's\nsister lived wasn't necessarily the huge coincidence you argued it was.\n\nAnother possibility is that all, or most, inhabited worlds have sisters of\nScylla, in which case it's no coincidence at all." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "And why, if Cilinia has schemed so diligently\nto be with Greater Scylla's \"sister,\" does she want to go back to her tomb\non Urth and take the long dirt nap?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This one isn't so hard. Her plans, whatever they were, would have been\npredicated upon her arriving as a goddess. Instead she's a \"sketch\" of\nherself, trapped in the brain of a bird, hunted, and not much of a natural\nlifespan anyway. She wants to die with dignity." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Somewhat related question to Adam, Blattid, or Alex, whoever cares to\nanswer: why, in your opinion, does the Mother (rather a benign figure\ncompared to Greater Scylla) give Seawrack to Horn?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Beats me; this is one of the things I'd expected RTTW to deal with, and it\ndidn't. At one point Horn conjectures that the Mother \"shaped\" Seawrack and\ngave her to Horn so that the human colonists would love her (158, OBW hb).\nBut if that was her plan, letting her go off to the Whorl seems\nself-defeating." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "And how does she acquire\nthe mermaid--especially, if, as I've argued, she's really Screadhbhuidhe, a\nspecial talent?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, at one point Seawrack says \"I was on a big boat, and I remember a\nwoman who talked to me, and carried me sometimes. I think that was my\nmother....My real mother drowned, I think, and the underwater woman [the\nMother] ate her.\" (244, OBW hb) This suggests that the boat Seawrack was on\nsank, and the Mother rescues her.\n\n--Adam\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] } ] }